BATTLE ROYAL WITH PRO-REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH BILL NO. 5043 SUPPORTERS, Part 1

The Virgin Mary humbly accepts to be the Mother of the Messiah

I want to share to you these exchanges that took place in one of the websites dedicated for the presidential campaign of Sen. Noynoy Aquino. The owners of the website are in favor of the RH Bill 5043 which supports massive Sex Education and promotion of Contraception as means of Family Planning. One Catholic named Albert joined the discussion by trying to explain the Catholic position on the matter but he was ganged up by others but stood his ground. Later another Catholic named Kapatas joined him in the battle and both valiantly repulsed the malicious attacks against the Catholic Faith. I enjoyed these verbal swordsfight and I hope you will do as well:

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An email From Wally Arida, a Filipino American living in LA:

As a Filipino American living in Los Angeles, CA for close to 30 years now, I’m disconnected from Philippine politics. Noynoy could very well be the one person our country needs to lead it to prosperity.

However, I ask you to please clarify one thing for me. I read in an article somewhere that it was he who authored a pro-abortion bill in the Senate. I pray this is not true. But if it is true, all people of good faith need to lean on Noynoy so he may be enlightened and he may change his position on the issue of the Sanctity of Life.

If he is to be a true moral leader, the right of all Filipinos to a decent life, yes this includes the unborn, should be his concern.

I pray I am misinformed on his position on the Sanctity of Life.

Keep the Faith. Peace.

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Manresa30 Sep, 2009

Wally, you’re indeed misinformed.

The RH Bill 4053 is not pro-abortion or anti-life. The bill neither contains any provision promoting or condoning abortion. To be sure, the bill explicitly provides that “abortion remains a crime” and “nothing in this Acts changes the law on abortion”. Therefore, the bill DOES NOT legalize abortion. It is NOT an anti-life. It is pro-quality life.

A reproductive health policy is not a new concept. It’s already enshrined in our Local Government Code since 1991. The RH Bill 4053 in effect expands the reproductive health policy making it national in scope and much more comprehensive.

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mary30 Sep, 2009

@Manresa, that is true. Tama yan, gumamit ng arguments with basis hindi yung pikon na argumento tulad ng ibang ibinabato. Pati buhok ni Noynoy ginawa ng pangdebate.

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mary30 Sep, 2009

@Wally, there is no such thing as pro-abortion bill in the Senate, not from Noynoy, not from any other senator You can check the Senate Bills and Index section. Do not allow others to mislead you. Believe in Noynoy. He will be a good leader. Welcome to ----.

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Regina30 Sep, 2009

@mary whoa, you’re fired up! cool ka lang…hahahaha

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mary30 Sep, 2009

@Regina, amen to that. wasted my arguments, dinidistort, ginigibo-gibo! Adios sa ngayon.

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Albert 1 Oct, 2009

Some contraceptive pills are abortifacients therefore the fact that the Bill promotes articifial means of preventing life the danger of Abortion is present.

Second, who will determine if something is moral or immoral. Majority of our people are Catholics and the Catholic Church already declared artificial contraceptions as immoral. Isn’t it a violatiion of the Conscience of the majority of our people if Noynoy will promote a Bill that is contrary to the faith of his people [and his own]? For the Catholic Church both Abortion and Artificial Contraception are immoral. The Congress has no authority to declare as Moral what the Catholics consider as sinful or contrary to faith and morals. It is like obliging the Iglesia ni Cristo members to disobey the choice of Manalo for election or to compel Muslims not to fast during Ramadan.

Then, look at the West. Their population is declining. So they need Filipino nurses, doctors, teachers and engineers. Soon, the West will be overcome by Asians and Africans who are migrating there in great multitudes. Do we want our country to hire nurses and personnel from Africa later?

Then, now we want to save people from Ondoy. Because people are precious and we need them. If the Congress want to lessen the population they should declare to stop all rescue operations and relief services. Let those in dangers die so that the population decrease.

I think Noynoy and the Congress must not let themselves be used by U.S. and European countries to apply their errors and immoralities in our country. Look at Thailand, they are using a lot of Condoms yet they have more AIDS victims than the Philippines. The RH Bill must be examined thoroughly. Hope Noy will reject it just like his SAINTLY MOTHER who was a cooperator of Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul the Great in defending the Sanctity of Life and Catholic Values.

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mary 1 Oct, 2009

@albert, just a PERSONAL reaction to your comment and I will try to be reasonble with statistical basis. Per recent statistics, the Western population is not declining. Sa US pa nga lang, 2,743,429 ang naidagdag sa population nila sa loob lamang ng ISANG taon from Junuary 2008 to January 2009. Th US needs Filipino nurses because Americans in the para-medical field are not enough to service their pupulation because they have a well placed care-for-the-aged program. Majority of their senior citizens are in nursing and hospice homes kung saan kailangan ng caregivers and nurses. Mapakalaki ang Amerika kumpara sa atin at dito sa atin, nasa sariling tahanan natin ang ating mga magulang, lolo at lola. People migrate to advanced countries mostly for economic reasons, gustong umasenso. Marami sa kababayan natin ang immigrants and naturalized citizens all over the world dahil sa kakulangan ng opportunities pang asenso sa buhay nila.Napakalabo yata na mag hire tayo ng nurses from Africa, dahil sa sobrang dami natin sa bansang ito. Umaapaw na ang dami ng mga nurses natin, yung iba, istambay na. At palaki ng palaki ang ating population and unemployed citizens.

Of course we want to save the Ondoy victims because we are a country of conscience. Nakakakilabot naman yung sinasabi mo na pabayaan na yung mga taong mamatay. Susmaryosep, Albert, kilabutan ka nga! Your suggestion is criminal. The people are alive and kicking, their arms and feet poarehong kumakaway ng saklolo then gusto mo pabayaan na lang na mamatay sila para mabawasan ng population natin? Sa ganyang paraan, hindi lang criminal kundi satanic na.

I am sure si Noynoy ay hindi magpapagamit sa sino mang banyaga. Mayroon siyang sariling pag-iisip. Kami mismo dito sa NoyPI, may kanya-kanyang isip at ni sa guniguni namin at magpapatuta kami sa mga banyaga because we are free and independent people.

I am sure Noynoy will take the issue of population control in accordance with his conscience, principles and paraan ng pamapalakad ng mahusay na gobierno. We in the NoyPI cannot speek for him. He alone can answer this issue.

But no matter what leaders do, ang botom line sa usaping ito ay yung individual choice pa rin. Decision ng tao mismo. Nobody can win this debate, this is one of those damn if you, damn if you dont issues. Mga diskusyon can go on and on, walang katapusan at always may opposite positions. Ang akin lang, hindi masama kung haluan din ng analytical and rational na pananaw itong isyung ito. Ang objetive ay paano maiibsan ang bilang ng mga batang isinisilang kada segundo samantala ang mga magulang ng mga batang ito ay hindi naman umaasenso kada segundo rin para matiyak sana na maalagaan ang mga ito, mapakain, mapag-aral, mabigyan ng kinabukasan? Ang karamihan dito, according to statistics, ay galing sa mga dukhang pamilya? Sino ang mag-aalaga sa mga batang born into poverty na dumadami? At sa totoo lang namamaos na ang mga lay leaders natin sa kasasabi sa kanila na mag-natural family planning! Pero hindi nakikinig? Where is the morality of giving birth to a child na magugutom at mapapabayaan lang dahil sa kahirapan? Ang daming questions on morality and sometimes we are just too human and too imperfect para sagutin ang lahat ng mga ito.

Isa pa, walang danger of abortion kung walang ma-conceive na supling.

Anyway, I respect your opinion.

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Albert 1 Oct, 2009

@mary, the population of U.S. increases because of immigration from Latin America and the Philippines and other countries. We don’t need nurses so much because our elderly is loved at home by their sons and daughters and by the grandchildren unlike in the U.S. and Europe they are throwing their old people into Home for the Aged. [A cruel faith for these abandoned elderly] That is their culture and mentality. And, now we want to adopt their contraceptive mentality.

If we have many nurses with no work the problem is unemployment and not population.

I mentioned about the Ondoy victims, to serve as an example of the Value of Life. We want to protect and save lives. Even though we are 90 million each human life is sacred. Then we are choosing a Contraceptive mentality which is a violation of life. Prevention of life. We can decrease the number of children without contraception. We must impose stricter laws on Adultery, because the adulterers produce more children and destroys family. That is immoral and illegal, yet it is being treated with kid gloves because anyway just use condoms. [We have to strengthen the values of our people so that teen pregnancies shall be avoided.]

Our population is our greatest asset. Man power is source of strength. The concept that Population is the problem is erroneous. The problem is corruption, lack of values, sexual promiscuities and others.

How to lessen the number of babies? We have to provide jobs to the parents. Once they are busy they will not just perform sex and sex. But even if you give them a lot of condoms if they have nothing else to do then the problem remains because they will do a lot of physical gymnastics at home.

Besides, who will pay for condoms and contraceptives? The government? Where will the government get the money to buy millions of condoms and pills? FROM THE TAXES. The U.S. and European nations promote condoms and pills because they are the PRODUCERS OF THESE PRODUCTS. They want us to be their dumping site. Nagpapa uto naman tayo sa kanilang mga argumento.

If there are 30 million couples in the country, how many condoms do they need in a day? At least, one or two. How much is it? Then multiply that in a week and in a month and in a year. How much do you need for condom alone in a year or two or a decade?

We will be draining our economy and our resources just to maintain one condom per family a day or even 3 times a week.

Then, do you believe the arguments that those pills some of whom are abortifacients are harmless and have no effects in our bodies? For a healthy woman to drink a pill regularly for sure there will be [negative] repercussions.

That is why I hope that Noynoy will not put his hand into this issue. The problems that you have narrated to me Mary are mostly economic issues and they cannot be solved by contraceptions.

I am also in favor of using analytical and rational analysis on this issue. And my conclusion is different from yours.

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Manresa 1 Oct, 2009

Albert asserted that “Catholic Church already declared artificial contraceptions [sic] as immoral.”

I don’t totally agree with this. The Church’s teaching on birth control is not infallible. In fact, Pope Paul VI dissented to the majority view in Humanae Vitae where the Papal Commission on Population and Birth Control voted to approve the use of artificial contraception. Again, there’s no infallible teaching by the Pope on birth control.

While on this, may I ask why the Church is singling out Nonoy on this RH Bill issue? Teodoro is also a co-author of the bill and yet the Church is not training its guns on him. I am a devout Catholic but I regret to say that our Church has a double standard of morality. The Church hierarchy is so noisy on the RH Bill but it stands behind Arroyo amid accusations of plunder, corruption and election cheating.

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Albert 2 Oct, 2009

@Manresa,

Are you Catholic? Who told you that only Infallible teachings of the Church must be followed? Besides, the highest authority in the Church after Jesus our God is the Vicar of Christ, the Pope – who is the successor of St. Peter. The Popes from time immemorial had rejected contraceptions. The teaching of the Church is consistent. That is the faith of our parents and of all our believers.

Who told you that it is not infallible? Whom will we believe? You or Pope Benedict XVI? The Philippine Congress composed by corrupt politicians and ruled by the GMA lapdogs or Pope John Paul the Great, Mother Teresa, Cardinal Sin and Tita Cory? WHO GAVE YOU THE AUTHORITY TO QUESTION OUR BELIEF AND INSTEAD OBEY THE CONGRESS OF ROTTEN POLITICIANS? [Whether it is Infallible or not that's not the main issue but the fact that it is consistently rejected by the Catholic Church OFFICIALLY and AUTHORITATIVELY.]

We follow the OFFICIAL declaration of the Catholic Church and NOT THE ‘PRETENDING TO BE CATHOLICS’ masking themselves as Popes.

If you are eager to implement and impose Contraceptions on our people then it is a declaration of war against our faith. The Catholics are peaceful people. Debates are encouraged even in our schools but we expect to be accorded respect on our faith as given to Muslims and others. How dare this Congress create a law that is violative of our Faith and Morals.

Your so-called majority opinion rejected by Pope Paul VI is a mere ‘chismis’. In the Catholic Church it is the Pope who will give the Definitive stand. If majority of the people will say: ADULTERY IS OKAY! It doesn’t have any bearing in the Church. The Pope will uphold the Truth of Faith regardless of the will of many who succumb to immoral views. "The commission voted to approve artificial contraception." Excuse me. That commission have no power to impose their opinions on our faith. Besides, their suggestion is immoral because it was contrary to the Catechism.

HOW ABOUT THE DECISION OF CONGRESS OR OF PRO-CONTRACEPTIVE SOLONS, IS IT INFALLIBLE? If you are trying to distort our faith by inviting us to be traitor to the Pope using your Non-Infallibility argument, make it sure first that your alternative is INFALLIBLE.

By Catholic Dogma the Pope is Infallible and if the Pope teaches that doctrine repeatedly and without any change centuries per centuries it is because that teaching is part of the Sacred Tradition of the Church. The power of the Roman Empire, of Napoleon Bonaparte, of the Soviet Empire failed to destroy the spiritual and moral authority of this Church. I hope that our politicians will respect the Catholic Faith.

The Church is not singling out NOynoy. In fact, several Bishops have shown favorable comments on him: The Bishop of Bacolod, Antipolo, Quezon City, Lipa, etc. Many priests and nuns are for Noynoy and they are close friends of the Aquino family. The Church is calling on all her children, including the pro-RH Bill politicians to respect the Catholic Faith and not impose it on our people.

The Church silent on Arroyo Corruption? Excuse me. Our priests and nuns and Bishops are in front of struggle against corruption against Marcos, Estrada and even Arroyo Administration. To discredit the participation of the Catholic Church on issues of corruption is a sign of being blind in social participations of the Church. The strongest and most solid companions of Tita Cory in her struggles against social evils in the Society is the Catholic Church.

"Concerning the Catholic Church not involved on issues related to election cheating", don’t you know PPCRV? Don’t you know that even Namfrel was stationed and empowered by La Salle Brothers and by our nuns and Bishops. C’mmon. [Two elections did I serve as Namfrel volunteers and the center where our preparations and meetings were our Parish' Catechetical Hall and many parish priests served as Namfrel and PPCRV coordinators in many areas and they were supported by nuns, seminarians, lay ministers, catechists, parish youth members and students from Catholic Schools.]

I am for Noynoy and I want to vote for Noynoy. That is why I am here in this site. But, I am asking Noynoy to be a true son of Tita Cory – the Catholic saint. May he uphold the Catholic values and virtues of his saintly mother and not to succumb to the immoral views of the West.