Fr. Abe, CRS, Bishop John Du and Bro. Ryan Mejillano in Minglanilla, Cebu
Anonymous said...
Dear Father,
Ang pagkakaalam ko si Sir Ryan Mejillano ay isa ring member ng SSPX kasi tutol din siya sa NOVOS ORDO pumapasok din siya sa LATIN MASS ng simbahan ng SSPX dito sa Davao City, tooto ba ito Father?
June 18, 2010 11:06 PM
Fr. Abe, CRS said...
Dear Anonymous,
Definitely, Bro. Ryan Mejillano is not a member of SSPX. Instead, he is a faithful Catholic loyal and obedient to the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, he is a high-ranking leader of Catholic Faith Defenders [CFD] both in local level [Davao] and in its National Level.
I know it because Bro. Ryan is a very good friend of mine. He indeed told me that he attended SSPX Mass but that was intended to know and learn the TLM and not to join that group. Now Bro. Ryan is attending the TLM at the SVD Seminary in Davao under the guidance of an SVD priest of very good standing in the Church. I know it because I was there and I was able to celebrate the TLM right in the same SVD Chapel.
Concerning the Novus Ordo. Bro. Ryan absolutely does not reject the Novus Ordo. Because he attended in several Novus Ordo Masses I celebrated. He prayed, he knelt in worship and he received the Holy Communion with love and respect and with deep adoration.
BRO. RYAN MEJILLANO IS TRULY A DEVOTED AND LOYAL SON OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. HE WILL NOT JOIN ANY GROUP WHOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE HOLY FATHER AND DOCTRINAL STAND ARE IN STATE OF DOUBT.
N.B.: The SVD priest I am referring to is FR. MANIWANG, SVD. He is the Catholic priest who celebrates TLM in Davao in whose Masses Bro. Ryan serves in fidelity to the Holy Father.
If you want to see my post about my meeting with Fr. Maniwang and my TLM celebration in the SVD Chapel here they are:
June 19, 2010 8:46 AM
___________________________
THE RESPONSE OF BRO. RYAN MEJILLANO OF CFD-DAVAO
Dominus vobiscum Padre,
I opened this email here in Salaysay area now (700 MASL and 54 Kms from Davao City ). It’s too cold here. I was surprised with this email Father that it gotten my attention.
Regarding the anonymous email, here are my comments:
Ang pagkakaalam ko si Sir Ryan Mejillano ay isa ring member ng SSPX
Walang membership ang SSPX. Hindi ako member ng any affiliated groups nila. CFD lang ang church affiliation ko since college. Although hindi ini encourage ng Rome ang attendance sa kanila, Hindi naman kasalanan ang pag attend especially kong ang pakay mo lang ay ang TLM mass nila (Letter of Msrg Perl to an inquiry about attending SSPX masses) since walang available na TLM near the area.
I have written 3 times the Archbishop requesting the TLM (2002, 2004 and 2007), pero hindi inaprove kasi kukunti lang ang number of signatories (300+ lang but most of them are members ng alliance of the two hearts and some conservative groups sa archdiocese). I stopped in the meantime kasi na busy din ako sa work ko. But I will try to write him in the 4th time.
For info, the issue has been settled already in the local level of CFD. I was given the chance to defend my position on this during the Board Meeting at San Pedro Cathedral last 2007. In fact, the Board of local Officers is asking me once again (last week) to push a resolution to request (using CFD resolution) for a TLM in San Pedro Cathedral. In the meantime, what I did sa CFD is we pray occasionally the Rosary in Latin (I taught them how to pronounce and the philosophy why latin using magisterial documents).
kasi tutol din siya sa NOVOS ORDO
I AM NOT AGAINST SA N.O. I am against sa mga abuses which I also share with other conservative groups within the Church ( Alliance of the Two Hearts, Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, Third Order Carmelites, Dominicans and other). Mas polemics pa nga si Dr.Bullecer, Archbishop Ranjith, Cardinal Estevez, Cardinal Llovera at Cardinal Arinze kaysa sa akin hehehe.
Aware din ang Santo Papa sa mga abuses (Pope John Paul II – Redemptionis Sacramentum, Memoriale Domine, Inestemabili Donum etc, and si Pope Benedict XVI). Kaya nga sa letter ni Pope Benedict accompanying his Motu Proprio sabi niya na “liturgical abuses can be seen in many areas in the life of the Church which are very hard to bear”.
Of course, when you do Gregorian apologetics, dapat hindi ka nag aatake ng persons (i.e Pope or bishops), dapat objective ka. Hindi ako kelan man nag tackle ng liturgical abuses sa plaza para hindi ako ma misquote.
I am attending N.O pag walang TLM (pumipikit na lang ako sa mga abuses). In fact, sa school where I used to teach my part time college (I teach, Christology, Ecclesiology and Sacraments), we have Ordinary Form of the Mass and we arrange everything from contacting priests down the last needle. Last week, I was in fact privileged to be a godfather of one of the prominent persons here in Davao . My kumpare’s and kumara’s are judges and politicians, and the mass was celebrated in the Ordinary Form.
pumapasok din siya sa LATIN MASS ng simbahan ng SSPX dito sa Davao City, tooto ba ito Father?
Occasionally. But it doesn’t mean na SSPX na ako. Hindi ibig sabihin na kung ako ay papasok sa misa ng Franciscan, eh Franciscan na ako. O di kaya pag nagsimba ako sa Carmelite eh Carmelite na ako. Ako po ay ordinaryong katoliko na nag aaral pa sa doctrinang katoliko. ( ‘’,)
Ang bottomline lang ng simbahan eh mag ingat. Kung may guidelines nga ang ecumenical dialogue para pwede ka mag engage sa different religions, bakit hindi pwede sa SSPX na kung tutuosin, kapatid natin sila. The truth is, hindi naman sa kanila (SSPX) ang TLM eh, that is our liturgical heritage that every catholic must enjoy and appreciate – and be legally celebrated by those priest willing in every altars of all the catholic churches throughout the world. In fact, Fr. Abe and the CFD-USEP had the chance last 2008 to celebrate it in the chapel of the Societas Verbi Divini (SVD) Davao .
I am hoping na meron na dito sa Davao. Lastly, hindi sa nakikipag side ako sa SSPX, pero in fairness and truth, ang mga adherents dito ay hindi tulad sa ibang lugar na mga polemics. They just attend and pray for the return of the Sacred. In fact, I am seeing some of their faithful adherents na nagsisimba din sa mga simbahan during feastdays (Sacred heart, Mt. Carmel feast etc). The priest since he is also a bisayan born, is not that polemics compared sa ibang lugar. He appreciates the efforts of the Holy Father while condemning those who oppose His Benedictine reforms.
Hope it settles the issue. I have no plans of investigating the identity of this anonymous. However, if he has the genuine heart of being a true loyal son of the Church, then he can email me for further clarifications @ ltnayr@yahoo.com . I will just pray for those who sent this email and may this matter merit our apostolic condescension.
“The gate of heaven is too low, that only the Humble persons can enter” St. Elizabeth of Seton
Pro Deo et Ecclesia.
Bro Ryan
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![ST. JEROME EMILIANI [1486-1537]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6dKQTchkJaA/R0lo013dyBI/AAAAAAAAB_4/XzUAPDESwwQ/s1600/St.+Jerome+in+prayer,+small_1.jpg)
Father Abe,
ReplyDeleteSana totoo ang mga pinagsasabi ni Sir Ryan.
Maitanong ko lang kung bakit may mga kasama siyang estudyante na katulad ko - mga BEC at CFD - USEP kapag magsisimba siya doon? Sa pagkakaalam ko ay mga mga estudyante na nga na sumama sa mga SSPX Pilgrimages sa Bohol.Ano ba ang ibig sabihin nito? Okay lang po ba na ganun ang gawin niya?
Paano kung ma absorb namin ang mentality at pag uugali ng mga SSPX laban sa simbahan at sa Papa?
Di na po ako nagpupunta doon kaso yong mga kakilala ko ay sige pa rin.
Salamat po sa pagtugon ninyo sa email na eto.
God bless po.
[Sana totoo ang mga pinagsasabi ni Sir Ryan.]
ReplyDeleteOf course tutuo ang sinasabi ni Bro. Ryan, hindi siya sinungaling. He is an honest and dedicated debater of the faith against the other religions who are attacking the Church.
We are grateful to him.
[Maitanong ko lang kung bakit may mga kasama siyang estudyante na katulad ko - mga BEC at CFD - USEP kapag magsisimba siya doon?]
Dahil mga kaibigan nya sila at gusto rin nilang malaman kung ano ang TLM o Latin Mass.
When I celebrated the TLM in Davao those who attended were mostly young people from USEP-CFD. They like it. They even confessed before the Mass. As explained by Bro. Ryan TLM is part of CATHOLIC TRADITION. So, what is your problem about it?
If you dont want the Latin Mass you want the Mass in Novus Ordo then attend your Masses in the Cathedral or in your parish but please don't put malice in the person or activities of Bro. Ryan with other USEP-CFD members.
[Sa pagkakaalam ko ay mga mga estudyante na nga na sumama sa mga SSPX Pilgrimages sa Bohol.]
SA PAGKAKAALAM KO HINDI NAMAN NATULOY YANG SA BOHOL NA YAN. ONLY BRO. RYAN WENT BUT HE INSTEAD PROCEEDED TO CEBU.
[Ano ba ang ibig sabihin nito?]
Bro. Ryan regularly travels all over the country and even abroad. He visited me in Bulacan and he attends CFD meetings in Cebu, Negros as well as having dialogue with Catholic Apologists in Manila and in Baguio. So, anong masama kung magpunta sya sa Bohol? What is your problem? Pinilit ka bang sumama sa Bohol?
If Bro. Ryan invited then to join him in a pilgrimage in Cebu, Bohol, Manila, etc. what is wrong with that? Pinilit ba sila? Ginawan ba sila ng masama? If you don't want to go then don't join them but why do you question na intention.
[Okay lang po ba na ganun ang gawin niya?]
Bakit hindi OK? May masama ba duon? Here in our school my staff and I went to the beach last month 17 of us. What is wrong with that? If we instead go to the Church instead of the beach what is wrong with that?
Please don't make evil what is in reality is good.
[Paano kung ma absorb namin ang mentality at pag uugali ng mga SSPX laban sa simbahan at sa Papa?]
The CFD members are well-trained on how to defend the Pope and the Church. For sure, the young members are being given lectures in Church History, Liturgy and Dogma based on Sacred Scriptures so that they can answer the enemies of the faith effectively.
I THINK YOU ARE NOT A REAL MEMBER OF THE GROUP. BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THESE THINGS.
[Di na po ako nagpupunta doon kaso yong mga kakilala ko ay sige pa rin.]
If you don't want its OK. We respect your choices. I admire those who are still joining for sure they are learning a lot about the Bible and the Catholic Faith.
[Salamat po sa pagtugon ninyo sa email na eto.]
You are welcome. I hope this explanation is enough for you.
[God bless po.]
God bless you too.
IF YOU ARE REALLY EAGER TO DEFEND THE CHURCH AGAINST SSPX THEN YOU CAN E-MAIL BRO. RYAN AND HE WILL TEACH YOU HOW TO ANSWER THEIR ATTACKS AGAINST THE HOLY FATHER AND IN OUR LITURGY. HIS EMAIL IS WRITTEN IN THE POST ABOVE BUT HERE IT IS AGAIN: ltnayr@yahoo.com
ReplyDeleteYOU CAN ALSO READ MY MATERIALS ABOUT LITURGY HERE IN THIS BLOG.
Also, please bear in mind this one. If you are a leader of the youth like me and Bro. Ryan, one of the common activities is OUTING, TRAVEL AND EDUCATIONAL TOURS as long as the students are willing to join and they have permission of parents and of the school officials if so required.
ReplyDeleteAlso, as Catholic Faith Defenders it is good that the young members are aware who or what SSPX is. When I was younger I was not aware of them. But my apologists mentors brought me to various Born Again worships to see what they were doing. Then we went to Luneta to see how they are preaching or arguing. Now these are valuable knowledge and expereinces for me.
I have been also attending TLM celebrated by SSPX here in Davao City. There is nothing wrong with that. Sacrosanctum Concilium paragraph 4 states "Lastly, in faithful obedience to tradition, the sacred Council declares that holy Mother Church holds all lawfully acknowledged rites to be of equal right and dignity; that she wishes to preserve them in the future and to foster them in every way." Clearly the Church honors and acknowledged other rites within the Church that includes the celebration of TLM.
ReplyDeleteFather Abe,
ReplyDeleteSalamat po sa inyong naging sagot. Pasensiya na po kung ang dating ng sulat ko ay para bang naging malisyoso ako patungkol kay sir ryan. Hindi po iyon ang gusto ko na iparating sa sulat na iyon. Sorry po.
Yong tinutukoy ko na di na ako nagpupunta ay sa SSPX chapel po iyon at hindi sa BEC at CFD organizations. Totoo, di pa po cguro ako matatawag na ganap na myembro sa mga organizations na yon. Pero gusto ko po.
Matanong ko lang po kayo Father: ano po ba yong supplied jurisdiction, state of crisis and emergency in the Church at ang Vatican 2 ay isang Pastoral Council. Ano po eto in relation sa mga SSPX? Palagi ko po etong nadinig sa kanila.
Salamat po sa inyo.
Thank you for your explanation Brother. May I add that the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church is expressed in two forms: THE ORDINARY AND THE EXTRAORDINARY FORMS. The Ordinary is the Novus Ordo and the Extraordinary is the TLM. They are equal and one in nature.
ReplyDelete[Pasensiya na po kung ang dating ng sulat ko ay para bang naging malisyoso ako patungkol kay sir ryan. Hindi po iyon ang gusto ko na iparating sa sulat na iyon. Sorry po.]
ReplyDeleteThank you very much for clarifying that. Well, it is good that you are asking for clarifications on some matters. It is better to express our doubts than to linger in the dark for so long.
Thank God that you don't have personal ill-feelings toward Bro. Ryan or the CFD group. Please talk to them, to Bro. Ryan in particular. He himself can answer and can clarify your questions.
I can see that you have set of questions. Please bear with me, I'm busy now but I will answer them one by one soon.
Dear Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI suggest that you communicate with Bro. Ryan himself. Dont worry, he is a very nice and accommodating guy. He is very friendly. Then, you can also talk to one of my good friends, Bro. Isahel Alonso. He is the Catholic Defender who commented above. He is also from DAvao and is as qualified to answer your questions about the faith and CFD. God bless you.
Father Abe hindi ako makatiis sa aking nababasa rito, if you still remember me I am Jeffrey Paloga a former Vice internal Pres of the CFD-USEP chapter. I know will who was my members before and i can assure to that. maybe baguhan pa yan or not totally member of the group. Because before we merge to the society Kuya Ryan give first a basic catechism regarding to that. And most of the CFD know will regarding the issue.
ReplyDeleteeven myself can defend to that big issue.
[Sana totoo ang mga pinagsasabi ni Sir Ryan.]
Eh ano ang mapapala ni kuya ryan kung magsinungaling sya?
magkapera ba sya nyan?
I know this guy(kuya Ryan) alam ko personality nito, kaya kung hindi mo naitindihan ang mga concerns mo usap kayo magdamagan, oh di kaya manahimik ka nalang dyan.
[Maitanong ko lang kung bakit may mga kasama siyang estudyante na katulad ko - mga BEC at CFD - USEP kapag magsisimba siya doon?]
Bakit hindi mo tanungin sarili mo kung bakit ka rin sumama sa kanila?
eh kung hindi mo alam,bakit ka sumama? anong tawag ngayun sa iyong sarili?
sorry if this is the way i response to your questions but before you do this things dapat alam mo kung saan ka magsimula at saan ka rin pweding lumabas.
[Ano ba ang ibig sabihin nito?]
Tingnan mo sarili mo hindi mo pala alam eh.......
Ano ba yan!!!!!!!!!!
If it is refer to the person (Ryan) wala syang ibig sabihin kundi to preach what is the truth... totoo naman talaga lahat na sinabi nya I CAN AFFIRM TO THAT..........
Abuses in the new mass marami baka gusto mo e litanya natin yung mga abuses na nasa new mass?
I will dare it to you.....
[Okay lang po ba na ganun ang gawin niya?]
Okay na okay talaga soon marami na kami. Now si kuya Ryan lang nakikita mo? next few years marami ng Ryan dyan baka magulat ka pa hehehehehe hindi sa nag mamayabang asahan mo yan......
[Paano kung ma absorb namin ang mentality at pag uugali ng mga SSPX laban sa simbahan at sa Papa?]
First and foremost we as BEC/CFD-USEP CHAPTER knows best for the church and also to the Pope as the successor of Peter. We attend for the mass regardless to the society. Hindi mo pwede sabihin sa amin purkit sumali kami sa misa ng society membro na kami. (FOR THE MASS ONLY) To tell you honestly even the society itself cannot conclude that they own THE MASS and it is exclusive only for the member of the society.. lahat na meron sila ngayon pati mesa hindi sa kanila yun sa simbahan yun
The reason why the Pope left up the excommunication to the society because they can not found any heresy to them. Ito mas maskit mas marami pa nga heresy sa mga full communion to the Rome( DIOCESE) kay sa society eh.
[Salamat po sa pagtugon ninyo sa email na eto.]
Heheheh hwag ka nang uulit ha?
magtanung ka muna kay kuya bako kay fr. Abi ha? I am sure hindi mo na kailangan mag tanung kay fr. if maka usap mo si kuya heheheheheheh
Sem. Jeffrey Paloga MSP
Mission Society of the Philippines
Mag-asawang Ilat, Cavite City MM.
Dear Father Abe,
ReplyDeleteAko na naman po. Salamat po sa iyong pag unawa. Salamat po at akoy inyong naunawaan.
Ayaw ko na po sanang mag comment pa sa isyung ito kasi sa palagay ko sapat na yong mga sinabi mo na dapat kong gawin. Ngunit nabigla po ako sa mga sinasabi ni Sem. Jeffrey. Pero sa isip ko po dala lang marahil yon sa bugso ng kanyang damdamin. Naramdam ko na malapit siya kay sir ryan.
Binasa ko po ng paulit ulit ang sulat niya para sa akin at may napuna po ako. Ito po ang mga iyon:
[before we merge to the society Kuya Ryan give first a basic catechism regarding to that.]
Merger? Puede po ba makipag merge ang CFD sa SSPX?
[If it is refer to the person (Ryan) wala syang ibig sabihin kundi to preach what is the truth... totoo naman talaga lahat na sinabi nya I CAN AFFIRM TO THAT..........
Abuses in the new mass marami baka gusto mo e litanya natin yung mga abuses na nasa new mass?]
Marami ba talaga Father? Kasi hinamon pa nga nya ako na i litanya daw niya...Ibig bang sabihin nito na kasamang itinuturo ang mga abuso sa new mass?
[First and foremost we as BEC/CFD-USEP CHAPTER knows best for the church and also to the Pope as the successor of Peter.]
Napahanga naman ako sa mga linyang eto. Kaya lang para kasing may "air of arrogance". Naku po pasensya na sa term. Baka hindi maging maganda ang resulta.
[The reason why the Pope left up the excommunication to the society because they can not found any heresy to them.]
Tamo po ba ito?
[Ito mas maskit mas marami pa nga heresy sa mga full communion to the Rome( DIOCESE) kay sa society eh.]
Ganito na ba talaga sa kalagayan ng simbahan natin ngayon? Kung totoo, puede po ba na gawing dahilan ito para sa isang katoliko na sa SSPX na magsisimba?
Sa tingin ko po, sa ganang akin lang, para nga talagang may merger kasi sa pangangatwiran niya parang malapit sila sa SSPX.
Father, kung sakaling offensive ang message na ito sa paningin mo okay lang po kahit na hindi mo na ito i publish. Baka kasi makasakit na naman ako ng damdamin ng iba. Ayaw ko po ng ganoon.
Sorry po talaga kung ganito ang nangyari. Feeling ko, parang may nagalit ata sa akin.
Salamat talaga sa iyo. Sana isama mo ako sa inyong mga dasal.
God bless you po.
Dear Sem. Jeffrey,
ReplyDeletePlease be gentle with Anonymous. He is not attacking anyone. He simply inquires. It is our duty to explain to him in a gentler manner.
Now, I hope that this exchanges will not cause tensions and misunderstandings among CFD members.
By the way, let me clarify some of your statements:
[The reason why the Pope left up the excommunication to the society because they can not found any heresy to them.]
The Pope lifted the excommunication because they asked him. They requested him and it was an act of charity on the part of the Pope to show his sincerity to the SSPX. Some of their leaders show respect and appreciation because of it while others remain as defiant.
[Ito mas maskit mas marami pa nga heresy sa mga full communion to the Rome( DIOCESE) kay sa society eh.]
OW, OW OW... IHO. I THINK YOU ARE GOING OVERBOARD HERE. THERE IS NO HERESY IN THE CHURCH OF ROME. THE DIOCESE OF ROME IS THE CHURCH OF ROME AND IT HAS THE POPE AS ITS BISHOP. SURELY, THE POPE IS NOT INTO HERESY AND THE CHURCH OF ROME NEVER TAUGHT HERESY.
[Abuses in the new mass marami baka gusto mo e litanya natin yung mga abuses na nasa new mass?]
WALANG ABUSES IN THE NEW MASS. THE ABUSES ARE IN THE PERSONS WHO ABUSE THE NEW MASS.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ADHERES TO HERETICAL BELIEFS AMONG THOSE WHO ATTEND TLM AND ALSO AMONG THOSE WHO ATTEND NOVUS ORDO. SO, NO GROUP CAN CLAIM THAT THEIRS IS IMMACULATE. TEMPTATIONS, ERRORS AND HARDHEADEDNESS ARE COMMON ON BOTH SIDES. IM NOT REFERRING TO CFD BUT IM SPEAKING IN GENERAL.
Let us bear in mind: Both the Novus Ordo and the TLM are canonical and therefore valid sacrifices in the Church. We must not accept one and reject the other. TO BE IN COMMUNION WITH THE POPE AND WITH THE CHURCH IS TO UPHELD BOTH TLM AND NOVUS ORDO AND IN ALL CANONICAL RITES OF THE LITURGY. AND WE REJECT ALL ABUSES IN ANY OF THE FORMS OF THE HOLY MASS.
Dear Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI hope you will be patient with Bro. Jeffrey. Please understand that the members of CFD also love their group and their leaders, especially Bro. Ryan.
May this exchange help in clarifying things out instead of making things more confused for everyone.
[Merger? Puede po ba makipag merge ang CFD sa SSPX?
ReplyDeleteI HOPE AND PRAY THAT THE CFD WILL NOT MERGE WITH SSPX BECAUSE EVEN IF THE BISHOPS OF SSPX ARE NO LONGER EXCOMMUNICATED THEY HAVE NOT RESOLVED YET THEIR CASES AND STATUS WITH THE HOLY FATHER THE POPE. AS CATHOLICS OUR ALLEGIANCE IS TO THE POPE, THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER, AND NOT TO A SOCIETY.
To Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteTo settle your questions once and for all I think it is best for you to follow the advice of Fr. Abe to talk to Bro.Ryan regarding the issue in order to avoid further confusions and misconceptions. God Bless!
Good evening Father,
ReplyDeleteAko po yong unang nagtanong tungkol sa status ni Sir Ryan Mejiliano.Ako po ay isang ordinayong kasapi ng simbahang Iglisia Katolika Apostolika Romana binibiyagan po ako bilang Katoliko,lumaking katoliko at hanggana ngayon ay patuloy na nag-aaral sa mga turo ng ating simbahan.
Father kilala ko rin si Sir Ryan Mejeliano dahil isa rin akong kasapi ng Catholic Faith Deffender Of Davao City for 3 years but now Im not active of the CFD because of my personal status. Wala na kasi ako ngayon ako sa Davao City Im her now in Luzon dahil dito naman ako nadistino sa aking work.
Father sa toto lang magaling magturo si sir Ryan tungkol po sa doktrina ng ating simbahan,
ngunit ang hindi ko maintindihan sa kanya parang gusto niyang ipalabas na mas maganda ang Latin Mass kay sa NOVOS ORDO, isa po ako sa kanyang mga taga pakinig doon sa Davao City while he was teaching about our Catholic Faith.
Nabasa mo naman ang letter ng kanyang kasama parang iba na ang mintalidad ukol po sa Holly Mass natin ngayon,sinabi niya marami daw abuso sa ating holly mass ngayon at sinabi pa niya nakipag merge siya doon sa SSPX.
Father kung maari lang sana na tigilan na ni sir Ryan ang pagsimba doon sa SSPX kasi alam natin na ang grupong ito ay excommunicated ng ating simbahang Katoliko at matigil na sana ang pag convience ng mga taong malapit sa kanya na magsimba doon sa SSPX mayron naman tayong holly mass na accepted ng ating simbahan.
Naala ko pa Father ng nakausap ko si sir Ryan linggo ng gabi doon sa plasa parang gusto niya akong konbisihin na sumali din sa latin mass doon sa kanyang pinupuntahan.
Ako po ay isang ordinaryong kasapi ng CFD in Davao ngunit nakikinig lang po ako sa kanilang mga turo doon....
GOD BLESS US ALL....
Dear Sir Ryan,
ReplyDeleteAko po yong nagtatanong tungkol sa iyo. I try to open you add but it sad to say na kulang talaga ako ng kaalaman ng Knowledge sa computer kaya hindi ko po nagawa.
Kaya dito ko na lang sasabihin ang tunay kung pangalan alam na kilala muna ako sa mukha piro hindi ako kunh kilala mo ba ang tunay kung pangalan.Ako po ay is ring kaspi ng CFD Davao for 3 years ngunit dhill sa work ko na kahit madistino sa buong pilipinas kaya hindi active ngayon as a CFD in Davao but Im still studying regarding our Catholic Faith and Doctrine.
Brod Ryan wala po akong intinsyon na atakihin ang iyong personal kasi alam na you are devoted to the Catholic Church.Ang sa akin lang ay nagtatanong kung kasapi kaba ng SSPX dahil alam ko na nagsisimba ka doon.
Bakit sir Hindi kaba makapunta sa Langit kapag hindi ka mahgsimba ng Latin Mass at pumasok sa SSPX alam mo naman na ang grupong iot ay EXCOMMUNICATED ng ating simbahan because of disobedient.Huwag kana sanang pumasik doon mayron naman tayong Holly Mass na NOVOS ORDO.
Sir tatanungin lang kita hindi kaba talaga kontinto sa Holly Mass natin ngayon at bakit?
Brod Ryan pasylua ko kung nakasakit man ko sa imuha personal piro dili na mao ang akong tumong kung dili nangutana lang.
Ako po si DONATO POTONG Jr sorry kung ako ay nagkasala sa iyo...
GOD BLESS TO YOU SIR...
Dear Donato Potong Jr,
ReplyDeleteAno ba yan heheheh Pangalan mo ba talaga yan?
heheheheh joke lang yun heheheeh siguro if we met before palabiro tagalaga me but anyway I am asking personally my apology to some sarcastic word or harsh word to you........I'm seriouse^_^
(Ang pagkakaalam ko si Sir Ryan Mejillano ay isa ring member ng SSPX kasi tutol din siya sa NOVOS ORDO pumapasok din siya sa LATIN MASS ng simbahan ng SSPX dito sa Davao City, tooto ba ito Father?)
This question of yours make my blood pressure high hehehehehehehe
Eh marami kami nag sisimba dyan eh ....
The proper is you must talk to the person concerned first then settle it and if you didn't satisfied then maybe thats the time.....
The questioned is paano maging member si kuya dyan? eh kung tutuusin pati na rin kami membro na rin hindi pwdi yan but any way sorry very much....
@ Fr. Abe, sorry my laps is under your correction but I would like to ask this
(marami pa nga heresy sa mga full communion to the Rome)
That is my line but let me sit some examples
1. some diocesan priest inserted exta movement during liturgical celebration?
2. many priest introduce SHIBASHI prayer
3. many priest and bishops did not obey the mandate of the Pope?
4. some priest introduce some practices inside the the church that was no longer thought by our church.
(THE ABUSES ARE IN THE PERSONS WHO ABUSE THE NEW MASS.)
Precisely correct this is what I mean father....
jeff
Mostly sa mga CFD members ay gusto ring merong misa na TLM sa mga simbahan and besides that it was the Pope Benidect XVI himself said on his letter to the faithful dated 12 Mar 2009, " But some of those who put themselves forward as great defender of the council also need to be reminded that Vatican II embraces the entire doctrinal history of the church. Anyone who wishes to be obedient to the council has to accept the faith professed over the centuries and cannot severe the roots from which the tree draws it life."
ReplyDelete(merge)
ReplyDeleteThe word that I used is not precisely correct sorry....
but this is my point of views that I want to share to every but whatever your reaction to this kindly directly address to me at jeffreypaloga@ymail.com
( Bakit hindi ako kontento sa mesa natin ngayon or the novos ordo)
I myself is contented to the new mass but if the priest embrace those foreign practices why we did not try to cherish the 2000 years old mass which I referring to the TLM?
My point is about the mass regardless any congregation who will celebrate the TLM.
(alam mo naman na ang grupong iot ay EXCOMMUNICATED)
They are no longer excommunicated as what fr. Abe said but then they have still unresolved
problem in Rome.
FR. ABE SORRY AND GODBLESS
Dear Sem. Jeff,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your explanations and once again please be gentle with Donato. He is inquiring and his inquiry is valid.
Now let me see your points:
[@ Fr. Abe, sorry my laps is under your correction but I would like to ask this
(marami pa nga heresy sa mga full communion to the Rome)
That is my line but let me sit some examples
1. some diocesan priest inserted exta movement during liturgical celebration?]
IF THOSE EXTRA MOVEMENTS ARE NOT EVIL THEN IT IS UNFAIR FOR US TO JUDGE IT AS SUCH. IF THE EXTRA MOVEMENTS ARE NOT VIOLATIVE OF THE LITURGY THEN WE CANNOT JUST JUDGE IT AS WRONG. THERE ARE MOVEMENTS THAT ARE HARMONIOUS WITH THE LITURGY AND THEREFORE ACCEPTABLE.
IF THE EXTRAMOVEMENTS ARE LITURGICAL VIOLATIONS THEN IT IS NOT THE FAULT OF NOVUS ORDO BUT OF THE PRIEST DOING IT.
[2. many priest introduce SHIBASHI prayer]
THE NOVUS ORDO DOES NOT INTRODUCE SHIBASHI PRAYER BUT LITURGICAL PRAYER. BLAME THE PRIEST WHO INTRODUCE THE SHIBASHI PRAYER BUT NOT THE NOVUS ORDO. THE POPE NEVER INTRODUCED SHIBASHI PRAYER ALSO.
[3. many priest and bishops did not obey the mandate of the Pope?]
YES. BUT THE SSPX ALSO DO NOT OBEY THE MANDATE OF THE POPES AND OF AN ECUMENICAL COUNCILS. IF THEY WILL CRITICIZE THOSE PRIESTS AND BISHOPS WHAT WILL BECOME OF THEM? THEY ARE THE SAME. THEY ARE BOTH DISOBEDIENT LOT.
[4. some priest introduce some practices inside the the church that was no longer thought by our church.]
THEN WE HAVE TO BLAME THOSE PRIESTS. WHO ARE THEY? LET US COMPLAIN AGAINST THEM. BUT THE NOVUS ORDO DOES NOT INTRODUCE THOSE PRACTICES. ALL THOSE IN THE NOVUS ORDO ARE PART OF THE SACRED TRADITION OF THE CHURCH FROM ENTRANCE PROCESSION TO THE PROCESSIONAL DEPARTURE. THE NOVUS ORDO IS COMPLETELY A CATHOLIC MASS ENTIRELY AND PIECE BY PIECE.
(THE ABUSES ARE IN THE PERSONS WHO ABUSE THE NEW MASS.)
Precisely correct this is what I mean father....
YES. THANK YOU FOR RECOGNIZING THAT.
ONCE AGAIN BRO. I AM NOT ARGUING WITH YOU. I KNOW THAT YOU ARE A FAITHFUL SON OF THE CHURCH. I AM SIMPLY CLARIFYING THINGS. I DON'T WANT OUR CATHOLIC READERS BE DECEIVED BY ANTI-NOVUS ORDO ARGUMENTS FROM SSPX. YOU KNOW THE ADD, INC, SDA, BORN AGAIN ARE ATTACKING THE NOVUS ORDO. THE SSPX ATTACKING THE NOVUS ORDO. SO, THEY ARE ON THE SAME SIDE, DI BA?
AS DEFENDERS OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH IT IS OUR DUTY TO EXPLAIN AND DEFEND THE HOLY MASS WHETHER IT IS NOVUS ORDO OR TLM. IF TLM WILL BE UNDER ATTACK I WILL DEFEND IT. IF THE NOVUS ORDO IS UNDER ATTACK I WILL DEFEND IT.
Dear Sem. Jeff,
ReplyDeleteNothing to be sorry of. As I told Donato, the young CFD love and respect their Kuya Ryan. And I do so myself. He is my friend and brother. However, it is good that we are clarifying things.
I know that Bro. Ryan is fond of TLM and I think there is nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, we also don't want our young people to be brainwashed by SOME SSPX members who are anti-Pope and anti-Novus Ordo.
I am very much aware that there are good people in SSPX who are sympathetic to the Pope and to his decisions but there are some also who are strongly angry at the Pope to the point that they accuse him of heresy and the entire Catholic Church. These people of course, must not be allowed to influence us. Otherwise instead of being LOYAL TO THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER, we become ATTACKERS OF THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER. He, he, he... THAT IS CONTRARY TO VATICAN 1. Take note ha. Not against Vatican II but AGAINST VATICAN I. He, he, he...
My trust and respect to Bro. Ryan is solid. I don't think he will betray his being a DEFENDER OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH. That Catholic Faith is founded on PETER and not on Lefebvre. Bro. Ryan is faithful and will remain faithful to the Pope.
I also join you in condemning the Liturgical abuses. There are abuses in both Novus Ordo priests and in SSPX priests. For instance, when their Bishops were still excommunicated, they were still celebrating Masses. He, he, he... What is that? Disobedience, both canonical, dogmatic and liturgical. Di ba?
So, we have to look at the matter sincerely and carefully. Donato is simply asking us to look at the dangers of SSPX and I think he has a point on that.
BUT OUR POINT HERE IS NOT THE PERSON OF BRO. RYAN BUT THE SSPX ISSUE.
GOD BLESS YOU TOO BRO. JEFF. MAY YOU BE A VERY GOOD AND LOYAL CATHOLIC PRIEST SOMEDAY.
Thank you so Bro. Noel.
ReplyDeleteGood day everyone!
ReplyDeleteIt's good to be here. I don't want to give any comment yet but I would like to express my heartfelt gratitude for teaching and helping us know the truth about this matter.
I agree wholeheartedly with you Father. Our loyalty should be to the Pope - the successor of Peter and not to SSPX. And we should obey the Pope if we are truly loyal to him.
Let me give you a quote from St. Catherine of Siena in her letter to Barnabas, Viscount Lord of Milan:
"He is insane who rises or acts contrary to this Vicar who holds the keys of the blood of Christ crucified. Even if he was a demon incarnate, I should not raise my head against him, but always grovel and ask for the blood out of mercy. And don't pay attention to what the demon proposes to you and you propose under the color of virtue, that is to say you want to do justice against evil pastors regarding their fault. Don't trust the demon: don't try to do justice about what does not concern you. God wants neither you nor anyone else to set themselves up as a righter of the wrongs of His ministers. He reserves judgment to Himself, and He reserves it to His Vicar; and if the Vicar does not do justice, we should wait for the punishment and correction on the part of the sovereign judge, God Eternal." (Letters, Vol. I., Letter No. 28)
Thank you Father and God bless.
The following quotations might be of help to all of us here especially of Sem. Jeffrey.
ReplyDeleteThese are taken from the letter of Castrillon Hoyos to Bishop Fellay dated April 05, 2002.
"I do not believe that my clear attitude and declaration of intention can be correctly interpreted — as some of you have — AS A CONVERSION ON THE PART OF THE CHURCH OF ROME, WHICH SHOULD NOW SEARCH FOR THE DEPOSIT OF FAITH IN THE HEART OF THE SOCIETY OF ST. PIUS X. Nor should my search for dialogue be considered to signify an inability of the universal Church to emerge from an interior crisis."
"This frontal attack on the hierarchy of the Catholic Church (the Cardinal was referring to the Letter sent to him by Bishop Fellay dated June 21, 2001) , including the Pope, and the reproach of having abandoned Tradition, constitutes in practice a dangerous pretension of judging the supreme authority. In line with the teaching of the First Vatican Council, Pastor Aeternus, we believe no one can arrogate to himself the right to judge the Holy See: " . . . than which there is no higher authority [and which] is not subject to revision by anyone, nor may anyone lawfully pass judgment thereupon." Nicholas I, already in the 9th century, wrote: "The judge will be judged neither by the emperor, nor by the assembly of the clergy, nor by the princes, nor by the people . . . The principal See will not be judged by anyone."
"In particularly difficult circumstances, not only of persecution, the Church foresees the possibility of "states of necessity." But THESE STATES OF NECESSITY ARE ALWAYS SUBJECT TO THE CRITERIA OF THE JUDGMENT OF THE SUPREME ECCLESIASTICAL AUTHORITY, AND THE MEASURES IT ADOPTS IN CONSEQUENCE; THEY CANNOT BE CLAIMED AGAINST OR OUTSIDE OF THIS SUPREME AUTHORITY, ON THE PART OF FORCES, ORTHODOX THOUGH THEY MAY BE, DRIVEN BY A DESIRE FOR REFORM AND GOOD INTENTIONS. Your conception and your interpretation of these states of necessity are inconsistent with faith in the indefectibility of the Church, and de facto have never been shared by the universal episcopate with the Pope as its head. It is a sorrow for us to see you shut up in such a position, which very much thwarts the return to full communion that is desired."
"TO QUALIFY AS CATHOLIC ONE MUST ALWAYS, BEFORE EVERYTHING, SEEK FULL COMMUNION WITH PETER. Faced with possible doubts and problems, it is always possible to make criticisms that, in conscience and with humility, one considers to be truly constructive. Despite all difficulties, this thought of Leo XIII should enlighten us: "But the true Church is one, as by unity of doctrine, so by unity of government, and she is catholic also. Since God has placed the center and foundation of unity in the chair of Blessed Peter, she is rightly called the Roman Church, for 'where Peter is, there is the Church.' Wherefore, if anybody wishes to be considered a real Catholic, he ought to be able to say from his heart the same words Jerome addressed to Pope Damasus: 'I, acknowledging no other leader than Christ, am bound in fellowship with Your Holiness; that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that the Church was built upon him as its rock, and that whosoever gathereth not with you, scattereth.'"
"EVEN IF THE MEMBER OF YOUR FRATERNITY RECOGNIZE THE LEGITIMACY OF THE CURRENT POPE, JOHN PAUL II (the reigning Pope of the time when the letter was written), AND RECOGNIZE HIM AS THE TRUE SUCCESSOR OF PETER AND THE LEGITIMATE VICAR OF CHRIST, THE LANGUAGE OFTEN USED BY CERTAIN OF YOU IS NOT VERY RESPECTFUL. IN FACT, IT SEEMS THAT THESE DO NOT ACCEPT THE PREROGATIVES OF THE POPE CONCERNING POSSIBLE MODIFICATION IN THE RITUAL FORM OF THE HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS."
Dear Brother Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteTama ka yan ang tunay kung pangalan DONATO PARAS POTONG JR ito po ang nakasulat sa aking BIRTH CERTIFICATE,ikaw brother anu ang tunay mong pangalan? Baka pwiding malaman?
GOD BLESS TO YOU....
To all CFD Members....
ReplyDeleteTo my brother CFD in Davao City whoe attend the TLM or Traditional Latin Mass in SSPX,tanung lang,bakit pa kayo magsimba doon na kung saan mayroon naman tayong Holly Mass which really accepted in our Church Magesterium?Hindi ba talaga kontinto ng ating Holly Mass ngayon (NOVOS ORDO)?
Thank you Im Donato..
Peace be with you!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeletefr. good evening!!!!!!!!
(GOD BLESS YOU TOO BRO. JEFF. MAY YOU BE A VERY GOOD AND LOYAL CATHOLIC PRIEST SOMEDAY.)
It is a long process fr.Abe but I am expecting your prayer hehehehehehe
(I know that Bro. Ryan is fond of TLM and I think there is nothing wrong with that.)
Hehehehe not only kuya Ryan want it but the Pope Himself. ^_^
(Nothing to be sorry of. As I told Donato, the young CFD love and respect their Kuya Ryan.)
yes very much ordination nalang kulang nya hehehe
(BUT OUR POINT HERE IS NOT THE PERSON OF BRO. RYAN BUT THE SSPX ISSUE.)
Yes that is true but I pray also that this society they become full communion to the church. Mga anak din sila ng Diyos at kahit papa'no katoloko pa rin sila.
Instead of criticizing both parties let as pray together. My main concerned is the TLM no more no less since it is the mandate of the church of Rome.
(I also join you in condemning the Liturgical abuses. There are abuses in both Novus Ordo priests and in SSPX priests.)
THANK YOU fr. Abe to that support I pray that many priest become like you Dominus vobis cum.
jeff
Welcome Bro. Jeff. Thanks also.
ReplyDeleteLet us pray that the SSPX will return in full communion with the Church. But as long as they are not yet in full Communion let us be wary of them. The fact that they are not yet in full communion in means there is something very very wrong in that society.
God bless the CFD.
Please be reminded Bro Donato that Novos Ordo was only on the time of the Vatican Council and prior to that, it was the TLM had been practiced by the church for many centuries. Besides that, Pope Bendict XVI conveyed on his message that Vatican II embraces the entire doctrinal history of the church and anyone who wishes to be obedient to the council has to accept the faith professed over the centuries In this point Bro, i believe that there is nothing problem attending mass either in Novos Ordo or in TLM and it is his individual right also to choose to. Thanks and God bless.
ReplyDeleteThank you Brother Noel for that reminder to Donato. And i would like to add.
ReplyDeleteWe just have to remember here that the issue is not about the TLM or Novus Ordo for both are valid and truly a Catholic Rite.
The problem is with the SSPX. Yes, they are celebrating the TRaditional Latin Mass but those were illicit Masses and the Church does not encourage us to go there except if there is no other licit Mass available in the area. Their attitude with regards to the New Rite of the Mass is not good and a times unacceptable.
We cannot accept one and deny the other. We cannot say I LOVE THE TLM AND I HATE THE NOM. It is not possible.
One thing also that we have to remember is that: "TO QUALIFY AS CATHOLIC ONE MUST ALWAYS, BEFORE EVERYTHING, SEEK FULL COMMUNION WITH PETER."
The SSPX celebrates only the Traditional Latin Mass and it is good BUT are they in full communion with Peter?
But I pray that the ongoing dialogue between the Vatican and the Society will finally lead to their reconciliation and full communion into the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I will surely be happy and grateful if that time comes and will surely go to their chapel to attend the Traditional Latin Mass. Meanwhile, I prefer not to go there.
Donato, hope this will help you.
God bless you and the CFD.
Thank you Brod Noel to your advice.By the way, ever since I cannot attend a Traditional Latin Mass but as far as history concerned,Traditional Latin Mass is the first mass of the Roman Catholic Church ever since,this Holly Mass was published from 1570 to 1962 by Pope Pius V but after the Second Vatican Council in 1969,Pope Paul V1 present an ordinary form of Mass called Nuvos Ordo and according to the teaching authority of the Church this two kind of Holly Mass is remain valid therefore it is equal in nature.
ReplyDeleteWe pray that SSPX will go back to the Roman Catholic Church with full communion of St.Peter.
Once again Bro Noel thank you to your letter and your advice.Please correct if Im wrong to my statement above...
MORE BLESSING GOD BLESS TO YOU...
Bro DONATO
Dear Bro. Donato,
ReplyDeleteThe First Mass of the Church was in Aramaic and Hebrew and Greek. The Last Supperr was said in Hebrew and Aramaic. While later the Apostles preached and celebrated in Greek. Even in Rome, the language of the people and the liturgy was Greek during the Apostolic Age. That is why the Bible was not translated into Latin until more than a hundred years later because the lingua franca was Greek.
The TLM that we have now is also a development of the simple liturgy of the past. Many elements contained therein are later on additions only.
YES. BOTH TLM AND NOVUS ORDO ARE VALID, CANONICAL AND CO-EQUAL. THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER SAYS SO. AND HE IS THE SUPREME AUTHORITY ON MATTERS OF FAITH AND MORALS IN THE CHURCH, OF COURSE INCLUDING LITURGICAL MATTERS... NOT THE SOCIETY OF NEVER MIND...
Dear Donato,
ReplyDelete(The following quotations might be of help to all of us here especially of Sem. Jeffrey.}
Thank you brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My point is about the mass regardless any congregation who will celebrate the TLM.
If the priest and the Bishop will celebrate the TLM mass there in Davao, there is no reason that I will continue to go to the Society,I and Kuya Ryan..
But since then the Bishop of Davao ignore the papal mandate which came from the Pope what shall we do?
WHEN IT COMES OF FAITH OF THE FAITHFUL maski Bihop ka pa o Cardinal YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO REBUKE IT. You need to respect the FAITH of the faithful Basic Catechism of the Catholic Church.
If we talk about DISOBEDIENTS PAREHO SILA EH.....
Saan kami pupunta? katoliko din kami..........
I do believe that the Church supply the necessity of the faithful Dogma yan hindi pwdi baliwalain hehehehe
Tanong, this dogma will effected us, those who attend the TLM of the society?
Yes since there is no TLM mass celebrated atlest one during Sunday or any other day in the diocese...
I will stress the word Faith........
Faith must be respected to anybody else maski pari ka pa respect the faith of the faithful.
Remember we have one Spirit but different gift of FAITH do we have.
It is our FAITH and your FAITH WE RESPECT IT
Sem. jeffrey Paloga.
Dear Sem Jeff,
ReplyDeleteIf we are in a place with no other Mass except TLM then let us attend TLM only and be happy with it. If we are in a place where there is no TLM but only Novus Ordo then let us be happy with Novus Ordo.
You know, I was able to attend TLM when I was already more than 30 years old. From childhood until I became a priest all my Masses were Novus Ordo. But I learned to love God, to love the Church, to be faithful to the Pope and have devotions to Saints, I fell in loved with Rosaries and the liturgical songs were in vernacular but I found them beautiful. I memorized those songs from the heart.
If someone will tell me now that the Novus Ordo is evil I will feel insulted because I experienced God in Novus Ordo and all the sacraments I received are in Novus Ordo. If there is no TLM in my area, I will happily attend the Novus Ordo because the Novus Ordo and the TLM are the same Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
The Bishop is lacking in charity by not allowing the TLM. He will be responsible to God for that. But, he is not denying you the Eucharist and the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass because there is the Novus Ordo.
Don't you know that MOTHER TERESA, SIS. LUCIA OF FATIMA, JOHN PAUL THE GREAT, THE CATHOLIC MARTYRS DURING COMMUNISTS OPPRESSIONS IN RUSSIA, CHINA, VIETNAM, KOREA, YUGOSLAVIA, HUNGARY, POLAND, ETC. ATTENDED THE NOVUS ORDO WITH LOVE AND RESPECT.
Have you heard Mother Teresa rejecting the Novus Ordo and preferring only TLM? Have you heard Sis. Lucia of Fatima demanding TLM? No, she attended Novus Ordo daily in her Monastery. Fr. Roel Gallardo - the priest tortured by the Abu Sayyaf while praying the Rosary was ordained and was celebrating the Novus Ordo.
Both Novus Ordo and TLM are Mass of the Saints and Martyrs and of Popes and of true believers of God. REJECTING THE NOVUS ORDO AND PREFERRING THE TLM ONLY IS DANGEROUS. BECAUSE THE CHURCH IS MULTI RITE FROM APOSTOLIC AGE. MAY LATIN RITE, BYZANTINE RITE, CHALDEAN RITE... ALL OF THESE MUST BE LOVED, MUST BE ACCEPTED.
If there is no TLM I suggest that you attend Novus Ordo like Mother Teresa. Pray faithfully and you will become very holy like her and Sis. Lucia.
ADDENDUM:
ReplyDeletePADRE PIO LIVED UNTIL THE TIME THAT NOVUS ORDO WAS PUT INTO EFFECT. HE ASKED PERMISSION TO SAY TLM BY REASON OF OLD AGE. HE WAS GIVEN PERMISSION. BUT THE CAPUCHIN FRIARS OF HIS COMMUNITY STARTED CELEBRATING NOVUS ORDO. PADRE PIO NEVER UTTERED A SINGLE INSULT, COMPLAINT OR OPPOSITION AGAINST THE NOVUS ORDO OR THE POPE OR VATICAN II. NEVER EVER.
GENUINE SAINTS LIKE PADRE PIO, MOTHERE TERESA AND SIS. LUCIA NEVER ATTACKED OR QUESTIONED THE NOVUS ORDO. Are we holier than these models of faith that we shall prefer only the TLM and refuse the Novus Ordo?
Dear Father Abe,
ReplyDeleteThank you very match to all the knowledge that you have shared to me.Sorry for getting me mistake to my statement above,Im only an ordinary Catholic who wanted to learn wanted to learn more regarding our Catholic Faith and doctrine.I know that you will help me regarding this matter.
Once again Father thank you so match to you correction and knowledge that you shared to me.
God bless to you Father....
Donato....
Dear Sem Jeff,
ReplyDelete(If the Priest and Bishop will celebrate TLM there in Davao, there is no reason why I continue to go with society I and Kuya Ryan )
Karapatan nating lahat kung saan tayo pumunta o pumasok upang magdasal,ngunit alam naman natin na mayroon naman tayong teaching authority of the Church na kung saan dapat nating sundin, Brod Jeff ang pagkaintindi ko sa statement na ito, you are demanding na sana magkaroon ng TLM doon sa Davao City,kaya kung lagi kayong pumasok doon sa Society upang magsimba hindi mo ako masisi na magsabi na kaspi kayo doon sa so society,kasi para sa akin napaka na illogical naman na lagi kayong pumasok doon at magsimba tapos sabi mo naki pagmirge ka pa doon so patawd na masabi ko kaspi kayo talaga doon.
(If we talk about DISOBEDIENTS pariho naman silang disobedient)Mabisa ba yan na dahilan kaya pumasok na kayo doon?
Maitanong lang kita Brod Jeff, Kailangan ba tala ang Latin Mass upang maligtas ang ating kaluluwa?
Donato...
Dear Sem. Jeffrey,
ReplyDeleteI'm totally amazed with the way you present to us your arguments and reasoning? Where did you learn it?
[If the priest and the Bishop will celebrate the TLM mass there in Davao, there is no reason that I will continue to go to the Society,I and Kuya Ryan.]
So, you and Kuya Ryan are regular church-goers in the SSPX Masses? And as long as there will no TLM in the Archdiocese, you will always go to the SSPX chapel for it.
Let me give you a quote from MSGR. PERL OF ECCLESIA DEI:
"The Masses they celebrate are also valid (SSPX MASSES), but it is considered morally illicit for the faithful to participate in these Masses unless they are physically or morally impeded from participating in a Mass celebrated by a Catholic priest in good standing (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 844.2). THE FACT OF NOT BEING ABLE TO ASSIST AT THE CELEBRATION OF THE SO-CALLED "TRIDENTINE" MASS IS NOT CONSIDERED A SUFFICIENT MOTIVE FOR ATTENDING SUCH MASSES."
[But since then the Bishop of Davao ignore the papal mandate which came from the Pope what shall we do?]
You have to continue attending the Mass that we right now. You have no valid reasons for not attending. WE HAVE THE SAME MASS - THE ONE ROMAN RITE IN TWO FORMS: THE EXTRAORDINARY (1962 ROMAN MISSAL) AND THE ORDINARY (1970 ROMAN MISSAL.)
[If we talk about DISOBEDIENTS PAREHO SILA EH.]
No, they are not the same. How comes that you came to that conclusion? According to Fr. Abe and I quote "The Bishop is lacking in charity by not allowing the TLM." But is it enough that we now equate the SSPX to the Bishop? I think that's wrong. You have to open up your eyes and see the reality that according to the Church where we belong the Masses being celebrated in the SSPX chapels are ILLICIT. The question should be asked now is: WHY YOU KEEP ON GOING THERE (SSPX CHAPEL) DESPITE THIS DECLARATION COMING FROM THE CHURCH?
[Saan kami pupunta? katoliko din kami.]
What a question? Did the Church deprive you of the means for your sanctification and the society provides it to you? You have to think of it my dear brother!!!
[I do believe that the Church supply the necessity of the faithful.]
States of necessity? IS THERE SUCH A NECESSITY IN THE CHURCH TODAY? Common, reconsider your position in this matter. Let me again give you a quote from my fellow anonymous:
But THESE STATES OF NECESSITY ARE ALWAYS SUBJECT TO THE CRITERIA OF THE JUDGMENT OF THE SUPREME ECCLESIASTICAL AUTHORITY, AND THE MEASURES IT ADOPTS IN CONSEQUENCE; THEY CANNOT BE CLAIMED AGAINST OR OUTSIDE OF THIS SUPREME AUTHORITY, ON THE PART OF FORCES, ORTHODOX THOUGH THEY MAY BE, DRIVEN BY A DESIRE FOR REFORM AND GOOD INTENTIONS. Your conception and your interpretation of these states of necessity are inconsistent with faith in the indefectibility of the Church, and de facto have never been shared by the universal episcopate with the Pope as its head. It is a sorrow for us to see you shut up in such a position, which very much thwarts the return to full communion that is desired."
[It is our FAITH and your FAITH WE RESPECT IT.]
You keep on talking about FAITH. WE ONLY HAVE ONE FAITH AND THAT IS THE CATHOLIC FAITH OF WHICH OF THE POPE IS THE VISIBLE HEAD - THE VICAR OF CHRIST. THIS IS THE FAITH THAT COMES TO US FROM THE APOSTLES. What faith are you referring to?
Let me again give you a quote:
"TO QUALIFY AS CATHOLIC ONE MUST ALWAYS, BEFORE EVERYTHING, SEEK FULL COMMUNION WITH PETER."
I hope and pray that this will help you. We have to open our eyes to the reality - we cannot be both a loyal member of the Church and an active member/supporter of the Society.
May God bless you always.
Dear Bro Donato,
ReplyDeletePlease note that there is nothing wrong in inquiring and seeking the truth. Hope that you will continue and support your local CFD chapter and enhance more knowledge to our catholic faith. God bless.
This might be of interest to many,
ReplyDeleteSupporters of the Society of St. Pius X and even some of their clergy would unilaterally assert they are in "union with the Pope" and such assertions make it so. BUT IS IT SO?
Here's the answer from Ecclesia Dei : "The Pope is the supreme legislator in the Church." Communion with him is a fundamental, non-negotiable hallmark of Catholicism which is not determined by those who set themselves up to judge him, but by the Pope himself (cf. Second Vatican Council's Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium #22-25)."
Thank you and God bless.
De facto et de jure [by fact and by law] they are NOT IN COMMUNION WITH THE POPE.
ReplyDeleteIn response to anonymous, I believe that Bro Ryan and some CFD members purely want to experience the old type of mass which is in fact practiced for centuries by the catholic church without any malice on there part.
ReplyDeleteMay I requote MSGR. PERL OF ECCLESIA DEI:
"The Masses they celebrate are also valid (SSPX MASSES), but it is considered morally illicit for the faithful to participate in these Masses unless they are physically or morally impeded from participating in a Mass celebrated by a Catholic priest in good standing (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 844.2)
Since that TLM is not readily available to the churches in the area and the fact that the request to have a TLM in the area is not yet realized, I believe that they are denied both physically and morally impeded from participating in a Mass (TLM) and therefore have a very valid reason to experience the Latin Rite celebrated by the SSFX as what Msg. Perl stated.
Thanks and God bless.
Dear Jeff,
ReplyDeletePlease be reminded of my consistent position with the situation of the Society. The first response of my reply to brother Donato is sufficient enough to answer his querry. Instead of turning the bullet to our fellow catholic, direct it towards the real enemy (heresiarchs of the faith- protestants).
To brother Donato,
I acknowledged your sincerity of raising the above question. Beg thy indulgence for the polemic words of Sem Jef. May I know your contact number? I talked with Bro.John Diona about your identity. He told me that you are indeed attending CFD classes 3 years ago but eventually inactive due to your work schedules.
I am happy that you are fond of Gregorian apologetics. Please work with me hand in hand so that I can give you some of the local updates with the CFD local group, so that the clouds of doubts be banished. Again, I will give you my email address and write your number there so that I can call you then.
Father Abe,
As what we have been confidentially exchanged in the email, no words can express my thanks to you. Please embrace me with your paternal blessing.
Bro. Noel,
Thanks for the additional informations you've given. I appreciate it. Pax tecum.
Anonymous,
Thanks too for sharing your gems.
God bless this thread.
Pro Deo et Ecclesia.
Bro. Ryan
DEAR BRO. RYAN,
ReplyDeleteYOU ARE WELCOME BROD.
I AGREE WITH YOU THAT WE SHOULD TRAIN OUR GUNS ON THE HERESIARCHS: INC, ADD, BORN AGAIN, ETC. NOT ON OUR FELLOW CATHOLICS.
It is good that we have this sharing due to the inquiry of Bro. Donato. It gives us the opportunity to clarify things out and help in strengthening the faith of one another.
Under the leadership of the Pope let us join hands in proclaiming the Beauty and Splendor of the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, ROMAN, APOSTOLIC CHURCH.
Dear Bro Noel,
ReplyDeleteI am not against the TLM but to the group celebrating it - the SSPX. But I have to admit that you have a point and it's possible indeed. And maybe I'm wrong. Thank you for that.
But then may I refer you to a commentary of that particular quotation from a Canonist in the person of Pete Vere. Here is the link: http://sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id60.html.
I extracted some parts of his commentary that include the statement from Msgr. Perl and it's up to you if you will read the whole article:
"With regards to the SSPX, this prohibition has been confirmed first by the Pontifical Commission ECCLESIA DEI in protocol N. 117/95 as follows:
2. The Masses [the SSPX] celebrate are also valid, but it is considered morally illicit for the faithful to participate in these Masses unless they are physically or morally impeded from participating in a Mass celebrated by a Catholic priest in good standing (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 844.2). The fact of not being able to assist at the celebration of the so-called "Tridentine" Mass is not considered a sufficient motive for attending such Masses.
Hence, we see that the Ecclesia Dei Commission, to whom has been delegated the power of authentic interpretation of Can. 844 §2 in this instance, does not consider the lack of opportunity to assist at a Tridentine Mass sufficient cause to receive the sacraments from a Lefebvrite cleric. Thus in light of Canons. 16-17, as well as the Norms 130-132 of the Eceumenical Directory, one cannot invoke Can. 844 §2 in order to receive the sacraments from a Lefebvrite priest simply because a Tridentine Mass is lacking."
God bless too and thank you once again.
Brother Ryan,
ReplyDeleteI am pleased by your presence here. At last you finally joined this thread.
I did have a lot of observations because of this sharing and I want to share it with you and at the same time will give you some pieces of advice. Here are the following:
First: I observed that you're really fond of the TLM and its good. Unfortunately, your bishop did not allow that form of the Mass. Please continue with that. Request your bishop once again through letter and furnish a copy of that letter to Ecclesia Dei.
Second: You're attending SSPX Masses - occasionally out of devotion and love of the TLM. Personally, I say that its okay but just be careful. Our loyalty should always be to Peter and not to the society.
Third: You're a leader of the CFD USEP right? That's good. Help them to become good defenders of the Faith. Educate and train them to be effective instruments of God in proclaiming the Faith.
Fourth: The CFD USEP are beginners of apologetics for they are students right? It would be better if you refrain to talk about the abuses in the New Mass and do not show or express to them your preference to the TLM and distaste of the NOM. That will not help them if you will mix it with their studies about Apologetics. If they are prepared and their love and devotion to Eucharist are unwavering, then you can share gradually those abuses.
Fifth: What happened to Sem. Jeffrey? Is he one of your protege? It seems he is very much well verse of the so-called abuses in the New Mass? Are you the one who taught him all of those? Please be on guard and always check the young on their position about the New Mass. We cannot deny it. We cannot say that it is not Catholic right? You know that.
Sixth: My fellow anonymous here mentioned about the Pilgrimage in Bohol. Is it true? Who organized it? Please do not allow them to join. Not that we are against the activity but with the one who organized it.
Seventh: We should always pray for our leaders and not criticize them. What good we can get if we always do it. Instead we should always pray for them.
Lastly, I would like to encourage you to do the necessary preparations for your group so that they will not be poisoned by the supporters of the SSPX. Make it as a topic in your future classes of the group. Unmask the society. Instill to the minds of the young that union with the Pope is a fundamental and non-negotiable hallmark of Catholicism. TO QUALIFY AS CATHOLIC ONE MUST ALWAYS, BEFORE EVERYTHING, SEEK FULL COMMUNION WITH PETER." Sentire cum Ecclesia.
Hope we will be always true to our mission as faithful sons and daughters of the Church. WE ARE DEFENDERS OF THE FAITH AND NOT OF THE SOCIETY!!!
You have always my prayer. God bless you!
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the constructive and helpful suggestions. May I know who you are and your affiliation? I asked this for transparency sake.
God bless.
Bro. Ryan
dear anonymous,
ReplyDelete(Fifth: What happened to Sem. Jeffrey? Is he one of your protege? It seems he is very much well verse of the so-called abuses in the New Mass? Are you the one who taught him all of those? Please be on guard and always check the young on their position about the New Mass. We cannot deny it. We cannot say that it is not Catholic right? You know that.)
Heheheheeh Don't worry about me bro..
Kuya ryan is out of this matter. I personally found this abuses in our church obvious naman.
No need to worry I know my stand I did nit condemned any one of the rite of our church...
again this is my FAITH to love Latin mass....
The person who abuse the celebration of the mass which I didn't like..That is why I love TLM because nobody priest can abuse in front of our Lord Jesus Christ...
Unless I saw that there is also inreverence in TLM Mag SABADISTA NA SIGURO KO HEHEHEHEH JOKE LANG HA!!!!!!
I know what is the current issue of both parties But again I myself going mass there, is a preparation if the sumurum pontificum ( hehehehe pls chek my spelling) will be formally implemented in the diocese.
Brother Donato I want that because I feel the sacredness of the mass and I appreciate the solemnity, reverence, full of respect of our King that's it. But since you didn't experience that kind of celebration ( TLM ) eh malabo yun nasa channel 5 ka ( kapuso ) channel 4 ako ( kapamilya) hehehehehehehe.
(2. The Masses [the SSPX] celebrate are also valid,)
Valid naman pala eh hehehehehhe I don't care of the society (SSPX) but I care the Mass period.
So I fulfill my Sunday obligation.
If the Bishop of Davao allow it Praise the Lord!!
Provide us any congregation to celebrate the TLM I will not anymore go there.
@ bro. noel.
Hheheheheeheheh thank you very much
(No, they are not the same. How comes that you came to that conclusion? According to Fr. Abe and I quote "The Bishop is lacking in charity by not allowing the TLM.)
Its an excuse, they must provide their reason why they refuse to obey the mandate of the Pope.
Kasi hindi ma intindihan....
Let me quote the statement of my professor " Latin Is the Language of our Church" If that is so.........?
Tlm suvive for almost
2000 years and then ngayun nalang hindi maintindihan? Or they are scared because no body knows how to celebrate another excuse....
@ fr. Abe
God bless Padre Pio Love both the TLM and New mass. During He celebrate the TLM the blood which came from his stigmata flowed out I watch Always him in the youtube. I Love Padre Pio.
Me too in fact here in the formation I attend new mass and I love this rite. But I LOVE MOST TLM.
(So, you and Kuya Ryan are regular church-goers in the SSPX Masses? And as long as there will no TLM in the Archdiocese, you will always go to the SSPX chapel for it.)
Occasionally. I go there not because of the society but because the mass.....
(WE HAVE THE SAME MASS - THE ONE ROMAN RITE IN TWO FORMS: THE EXTRAORDINARY (1962 ROMAN MISSAL) AND THE ORDINARY (1970 ROMAN MISSAL.)
The Extra Ordinary cannot be the same to the ordinary form of mass kaya nga Extra eh.....
Mas mahal ang special na shiopao kay sa ordinary na shiopao but they are the same shiopao heheheheh
Sem. Jeffrey
dear anonymous,
ReplyDelete(Fifth: What happened to Sem. Jeffrey? Is he one of your protege? It seems he is very much well verse of the so-called abuses in the New Mass? Are you the one who taught him all of those? Please be on guard and always check the young on their position about the New Mass. We cannot deny it. We cannot say that it is not Catholic right? You know that.)
Heheheheeh Don't worry about me bro..
Kuya ryan is out of this matter. I personally found this abuses in our church obvious naman.
No need to worry I know my stand I did nit condemned any one of the rite of our church...
again this is my FAITH to love Latin mass....
The person who abuse the celebration of the mass which I didn't like..That is why I love TLM because nobody priest can abuse in front of our Lord Jesus Christ...
Unless I saw that there is also inreverence in TLM Mag SABADISTA NA SIGURO KO HEHEHEHEH JOKE LANG HA!!!!!!
I know what is the current issue of both parties But again I myself going mass there, is a preparation if the sumurum pontificum ( hehehehe pls chek my spelling) will be formally implemented in the diocese.
Brother Donato I want that because I feel the sacredness of the mass and I appreciate the solemnity, reverence, full of respect of our King that's it. But since you didn't experience that kind of celebration ( TLM ) eh malabo yun nasa channel 5 ka ( kapuso ) channel 4 ako ( kapamilya) hehehehehehehe.
(2. The Masses [the SSPX] celebrate are also valid,)
Valid naman pala eh hehehehehhe I don't care of the society (SSPX) but I care the Mass period.
So I fulfill my Sunday obligation.
If the Bishop of Davao allow it Praise the Lord!!
Provide us any congregation to celebrate the TLM I will not anymore go there.
@ bro. noel.
Hheheheheeheheh thank you very much
(No, they are not the same. How comes that you came to that conclusion? According to Fr. Abe and I quote "The Bishop is lacking in charity by not allowing the TLM.)
Its an excuse, they must provide their reason why they refuse to obey the mandate of the Pope.
Kasi hindi ma intindihan....
Let me quote the statement of my professor " Latin Is the Language of our Church" If that is so.........?
Tlm suvive for almost
2000 years and then ngayun nalang hindi maintindihan? Or they are scared because no body knows how to celebrate another excuse....
@ fr. Abe
God bless Padre Pio Love both the TLM and New mass. During He celebrate the TLM the blood which came from his stigmata flowed out I watch Always him in the youtube. I Love Padre Pio.
Me too in fact here in the formation I attend new mass and I love this rite. But I LOVE MOST TLM.
(So, you and Kuya Ryan are regular church-goers in the SSPX Masses? And as long as there will no TLM in the Archdiocese, you will always go to the SSPX chapel for it.)
Occasionally. I go there not because of the society but because the mass.....
(WE HAVE THE SAME MASS - THE ONE ROMAN RITE IN TWO FORMS: THE EXTRAORDINARY (1962 ROMAN MISSAL) AND THE ORDINARY (1970 ROMAN MISSAL.)
The Extra Ordinary cannot be the same to the ordinary form of mass kaya nga Extra eh.....
Mas mahal ang special na shiopao kay sa ordinary na shiopao but they are the same shiopao heheheheh
Sem. Jeffrey
Dear Father Abe and Bro Noel
ReplyDeleteThank you so match to your statement that you have share regarding this issue. Bro Noel I was very surprise that you talk Sir John Diona about my identity a present President of CFD in Davao City.Sir John Diona is one of my teacher of CFD in Davao,as for me he is very intelligent teacher regarding our Catholic Faith and Doctrine.
Bro Noel Im very proud also that you ask my contact number with the purpose that you can contact me in order to update with the local CFD group.With all of my hearts I give you my contact number 09098784306,Im here now in Luzon,Montalban Rizal.
Bro DONATO
GOD BLESS US ALL....
dear anonymous,
ReplyDelete(Karapatan nating lahat kung saan tayo pumunta o pumasok upang magdasal,ngunit alam naman natin na mayroon naman tayong teaching authority of the Church na kung saan dapat nating sundin,)
Buti pa tayo alam natin ang teaching authority eh sila deadma????????
The Universal law of the church must not subjective to the local law.....
If the Pope says IT MUST FOLLOW, the church is not democratic form of government but it is hierarchic form of Government Dogma yan.
(I'm totally amazed with the way you present to us your arguments and reasoning? Where did you learn it?)
Thank you for the complement but I still on a learning process.... through reading and asking question to the people who have the capacity to fulfill my longings in truth.
(Maitanong lang kita Brod Jeff, Kailangan ba tala ang Latin Mass upang maligtas ang ating kaluluwa?)
Kailangan rin ba ang New mass para maligtas ang ating kaluluwa?
My answer to your question:
Both New Mass And TLM is necessary. Mass is the summit of our prayer Basic Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Pareho ba ang lasa ng shiopao na ordinaryo at spesyal na shiopao? obviously not Kahit sa presyo hindi pariho pero pareho silang shiopao
BAKIT KAYA?
BAKIT GUSTO MO PA RIN ANG SPESYAL NA SHIOPAO KAHIT MERON KA NANG ORDINARYONG SHIOPAO SA KAMAY MO, KAHIT NA MAS MAHAL ANG PRESYO NITO?
Sem. Jeff
To the Admin,
ReplyDeletePleas donot view my letter what I have written now I think was wrong...
Donato
To the Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThank you to your concerned regarding this issue. I was very surprise that you talk Sir John Diona about my identity.Sir John Diona is the Present President Of CFD in Davao City.And I was very proud that you ask my contact number with the good purpose,with all of my hearth,this is my cell number 09098784306 Im here now in Luzon, Montalban Rizal
BRO DONATO.....
GOD BLESS US ALLL...
Dear Sem.Jeff,
ReplyDeleteYou know Bro Jeff in your letter,hindi ko maiwasan na mag conclude na tutol ka talaga sa New Mass natin ngayon.
Ano bang nangyari sa iyo,ang Holly Mass natin ay inihambing mo lang sa isang SIOPAO,yan ba ang value ng Holly Mass mo comparing to siopao na lang.
Huwag nanan sanang ganyan Bro illogical yata?
Sorry sa ha ito kasi ang pagkaintindi sa letter mo.
God Bless To You Brod...
BRO DONATO.
To everyone,
ReplyDeleteThe following quotations are from Michael Davies - a known Traditionalist and a prolific writer of so many books and articles about the Taditional Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo Missae. I quoted all of these hoping that these may help all of us here.
"I challenged a number of priests who have claimed that the Latin Missal (1970 Roman Missal) does contain such positively harmful elements to name them. They have been unable to do so and have fallen back on the argument that the Missal is harmful in view of what it omits rather than what it contains."
"The case put forward by Traditional Catholics for the superiority of the 1962 Missal over that of 1970 as a liturgical expression of Catholic Eucharistic teaching is unanswerable, but they will not enhance that case, their own credibility, or the credibility of the traditionalist movement, by ignoring the positive aspects of the New Missal."
"The fact that the Latin Missal of Pope Paul VI is valid, free from doctrinal error, mandates no intrinsically harmful practice, and gives specific liturgical expression to all the essential dogmas of Catholic Eucharistic teaching, will not surprise any Catholic acquainted with the doctrine of infallibility."
"To claim that every celebration of the New Mass is evil is offensive and insulting to tens of thousands of exemplary Catholic priests who have dedicated their lives to the service of the Lord, and believe sincerely that they are bound in obedience to use the 1970 Missal, whatever their opinion of that Missal might be."
"The Mass of Pope Paul VI is indubitably a Catholic rite and assisting at it indubitably fulfills the Sunday obligation. It is the Roman Pontiff who decides what is or what is not a Catholic rite, and any rite recognized by him as such undoubtedly comes into this category."
"No true pope could impose or even authorize for universal use a liturgical rite that was in itself harmful to the faithful."
"The Pope is the only person with the authority to decide what is or is not a Catholic rite.
Thank you very much and God bless.
Bro Donato,
ReplyDeleteIt was not actually me asking your contact number and it was your former colleague in CFD Davao.
Thanks.
Sem Jeff,
You are indeed correct that expensive and cheap siopao are all the same siopao in comparing to the TLM and Novos Ordo masses. In addition for a more clearer view, 95% of the Catholic saints was born on the time of the TLM and celebrated the TLM masses, di naman siguro nagiging santo kong mali pa yong sinasamahan nilang misa noon.
God bless.
Fr. Abe,
Thanks for the untiring efforts in defending the Catholic Church.
May Jesus Christ our God guide you always. .
Dear Sem. Jeffrey,
ReplyDelete[No need to worry I know my stand I did nit condemned any one of the rite of our church.]
Thank God and I'm glad to know it. But I'm very much concerned with your attitude towards the New Mass. Even if you love it less, that would not be enough reason to say anything that is not good about it. The abuses in the Mass refer not to the rite itself but to the one who does the abuses.
[Unless I saw that there is also inreverence in TLM Mag.]
There were also abuses done to the TLM by the priest celebrating it before. You better check it out.
[Brother Donato I want that because I feel the sacredness of the mass and I appreciate the solemnity, reverence, full of respect of our King that's it.]
You mean only in the TLM you experience all of those? You don't have any experience of solemnity, reverence and respect to the Lord in the NOM? Really? You know that would be unfair because there are millions of Catholics today that were nourished and sanctified by the NOM and they become to know more about the Lord because of it.
[(2. The Masses [the SSPX] celebrate are also valid,) Valid naman pala eh hehehehehhe I don't care of the society (SSPX) but I care the Mass period.]
So, it doesn't matter now to you the continuation of that statement? We will just ignore it? Where is our obedience then? Brother, the Church knows what is best for us, and she will not tell us not to go there without any serious and good reasons. Think about it.
[Its an excuse, they must provide their reason why they refuse to obey the mandate of the Pope.]
Oh really. What really is the exact reason then? You cannot just say that it is just an excuse for you don't know well your Bishop. Did you talk to him? By the way, what did you do? Did you also wrote a letter to him? What was his response?
[The Extra Ordinary cannot be the same to the ordinary form of mass kaya nga Extra eh.....)
You missed the point here. The use of the words Ordinary and extraordinary in the Church is quite different the way we used it outside the Church. Your comparison with the special and ordinary siopao will not apply here. We have the same Mass and this Mass in Roman rite is expressed in several forms or expression.
I will give a quote from the document Summorum Pontificum:
"The Roman Missal promulgated by Paul VI is the ordinary expression of the 'Lex orandi' (Law of prayer) of the Catholic Church of the Latin Rite. Nonetheless, the Roman Missal promulgated by St. Pius V and reissued by Bl. John XXIII is to be considered as an extraordinary expression of that same 'Lex orandi'" (article 1 of the motu proprio)."
[The Universal law of the church must not subjective to the local law...If the Pope says IT MUST FOLLOW, the church is not democratic form of government but it is hierarchic form of Government.]
Yes, the Church is not a democracy but the Pope also is not an autocratic leader. He modeled it and does not impose. You know, as a leader you need to be prudent enough. We cannot impose things to others for at times there will be a negative effect. Yes, there are bishops that somehow ignore some Papal directives and mandates but then we have to pray for them instead of criticizing them.
[Thank you for the complement but I still on a learning process.... through reading and asking question to the people who have the capacity to fulfill my longings in truth.]
You're welcome Bro. Jeffrey. Continue with your study. Ask the Holy Spirit to guide and help you. But we have to be careful also to the books that we are reading as well as the person we are asking. We have also to be vigilant and should not rely only to what one people will say. Always consult Church documents and what the Church says on that particular topic you are studying. Our Mother Church knows best and knows what is best for us.
We have always to be faithful, loyal and obedient sons and daughters of the Church.
God bless you always. Sentire cum Ecclesia!
Brother Noel,
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised with your affirmation on Siopao argument of Sem. Jeffrey.
[You are indeed correct that expensive and cheap siopao are all the same siopao in comparing to the TLM and Novos Ordo masses.]
Let me requote this statement from the document Summorum Pontificum:
"The Roman Missal promulgated by Paul VI is the ordinary expression of the 'Lex orandi' (Law of prayer) of the Catholic Church of the Latin Rite. Nonetheless, the Roman Missal promulgated by St. Pius V and reissued by Bl. John XXIII is to be considered as an extraordinary expression of that same 'Lex orandi'" (article 1 of the motu proprio)."
Using your example that would mean that the NOM (Ordinary Form of the Mass) is the cheap expression of the Lex Orandi of the Church and the TLM (Extraordinary Form of the Mass) is the expensive expression of the same Lex Orandi. This is not acceptable. Come on, consider your position here.
The Church makes no such distinctions of the two expressions of the Roman Rite Liturgy. Also,
take note that we have actually nine forms of the Roman Rite Liturgy including the NOM and TLM.
[In addition for a more clearer view, 95% of the Catholic saints was born on the time of the TLM and celebrated the TLM masses, di naman siguro nagiging santo kong mali pa yong sinasamahan nilang misa noon.]
This is not an issue. But to say that the New Mass is ineffective when we talk about holiness is unfair. It is "offensive and insulting to tens of thousands of exemplary Catholic priests who have dedicated their lives to the service of the Lord, and believe sincerely that they are bound in obedience to use the 1970 Missal, whatever their opinion of that Missal might be."
We have to remember always that:
"The Mass of Pope Paul VI is indubitably a Catholic rite and assisting at it indubitably fulfills the Sunday obligation. It is the Roman Pontiff who decides what is or what is not a Catholic rite, and any rite recognized by him as such undoubtedly comes into this category."
Thank you once again and God bless. Sentire cum Ecclesia.
Dear Father Abe,
ReplyDeleteMagandang araw po sa iyo.
Ano po ba ang ibig sabihin ng SENTIRE CUM ECCLESIA? Naging interesado lang po ako kasi di ko siya naintindihan. Di ba Latin po iyan?
Salamat po.
Dear Bro Noel,
ReplyDeleteMali nga ako, si Bro Ryan pala ang naghingi ng contact number sa akin,iniantok na kasi ako..
Salamat at nagkausap na kami through phone...
SENTIRE CUM ECCLESIA. Literally 'TO THINK WITH THE CHURCH'.
ReplyDeleteThis saying is very old in the Church but it is popularized by the founder of the SOCIETY OF JESUS - ST. IGNATIUS OF LOYOLA.
St. Ignatius as we know wanted his followers to be the arm of the Pope. He wanted them to obey the Pope with open heart and in everything that we do they should not follow simply what they want but to develop and acquire the same way of thinking of the Church, to think and act as a faithful Catholic. And this is manifested by their Obedience to the Holy Father as their fourth vow:
* Poverty
* Chastity
* Obedience [to the Superiors or the Bishop]
* Obedience to the Holy Father
So that the Jesuits must obey the command of the Pope if he wants them to go to the most difficult of missions even to the point that they could loose their lives.
Well, for non Jesuits and on our part it means: WE SHOULD NOT BE TRAITOR TO THE CHURCH AND TO THE POPE. WE MUST BE LOYAL SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF THE CHURCH AND AVOID FALLING INTO HERESIES AND SCHISMS.
Dear Bro Sem Jeff,
ReplyDeleteAng Kuya Ryan mo at ako,ay nagkausap na through phone,kaninang tanghali lang,masaya po ako ng siya ay tumawag sa akin.I really understand the side of Bro Ryan.Piro amg hindi ko maintidihan ay ang side mo,patawad brod kung ang pagkaintindi ko sa letter mo na hindi ka talaga kontinto sa Holly Mass natin ngayon at parang tutol ka yata sa ating teaching authority of the Church?
Sorry ha kung ito ang pagkaintindi sa letter mo..
Bro Donato
GOD BlESS US ALL...
MADRE DE DIO. This is the most commented topic in this Blog among Catholics. He, he, he... Well my INC and ADD posts have reaced already 400 or 300 or 200 comments. Here we are reaching almost 100 na.
ReplyDeleteNow,
I think the Siopao analogy is defective. IT IS NEVER A DOCTRINE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THAT THE TLM IS THE BEST AND THE HIGHEST OF ALL HER RITES. That is insulting to the Greek Mass, the Ukrainian Mass, the Chaldean Mass, the Maronite Mass, the Ambrosian Mass, etc.
Let us be very careful not to refer to the TLM as THE MASS. It is not THE MASS. When we say THE MASS IF REFERS TO ALL THE 9 RITES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH NOT JUST THE TLM. All and each of them are valid and apostolic in origin.
Is the TLM the Mass of MOST OF THE SAINTS? NO!
1. The Mass of Jesus was in Hebrew and Aramaic not in Latin. Why? Because it was the combination of the Passover Liturgy which was in Hebrew and those pronounced by Jesus to the Apostles when he was speaking outside the Passover Ritual, he was speaking in Aramaic.
2. The Mass of the Apostles were in Greek not Latin. That is why they PREACHED AND WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT IN GREEK NOT LATIN.
3. The Mass of the Roman Martyrs was in Greek.
4. When Latin became the lingua franca of the West the Mass was not yet TLM. It has many forms and it was varied: Ambrosian, Gallican, Mazorabic, etc. SO EVEN IN ITALY AND IN SPAIN THEY HAVE VARIED LATIN RITES.
5. In the EAst which until 1453 was greater and more influential economically, militarily and politically than the West the Mass was GREEK, Syriac, Coptic, etc.
6. In Russia, Poland, etc. the language of the Mass was not Latin but SLAVONIC. It was STS. CYRIL AND METHODIUS WHO INVENTED THAT LANGUAGE TO CONVERT EASILY THE BARBARIANS OF THAT REGION.
7. THE TLM AS WE KNOW IT TODAY BECAME THE FORM THAT IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE ONE WE HAVE AFTER THE COUNCIL OF TRENT WHEN ST. PIUS V INCORPORATED INTO ONE THE TREASURIES OF THE LATIN RITES SUCH AS THE ROMAN, AMBROSIAN, GALLICAN, MAZORABIC, ETC.
So, for 1,500 years the Mass of the Saints from all over the World is MULTI-RITE not the TLM. From the Tridentine Era until Vatican II the dominant Rite is of course TLM. That is why it is popularly called THE TRIDENTINE LATIN MASS.
Let us also take note that almost half of the world became COMMUNISTS under already the NOvus Ordo dominance. Thousands and thousands of Catholic priests, bishops, nuns were arrested, shot, killed, murdered, died in concentration camps in Russia, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Hungery, Yugoslavia, Checoslovakia, Ukraine, Armenia, Slovenia, etc. THE MASS OF THESE MARTYRS AND SAINTS WAS NOVUS ORDO. You can include Mother Teresa and Sister Lucia of Fatima.
LET US LOVE ALL CATHOLIC RITES: LATIN [TLM AND NOVUS ORDO], GREEK, SYRO-MALABAR, COPTIC, UKRAINIAN, ETC. ALL OF THEM ARE GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR COMMENTS AND SHARINGS. WE ARE ALL LEARNING FROM ONE ANOTHER. WE ARE BROTHERS IN CHRIST. LET US UPLIFT EACH OTHER'S FAITH AND SUPPORT EACH OTHER IN WEAKNESS.
ReplyDeleteLET US BE LIONS TO THE ENEMIES OF THE BODY OF CHRIST BUT GENTLE LAMBS TO THE BRETHREN REDEEMED BY THE MASTER'S BLOOD.
Sometimes when I share something I might disagree with one and agree with another. But always bear in mind that you are all dear to my heart as a father in faith. I respect each one and I treasure all your thoughts.
ReplyDeleteSALAMAT SA DIOS AT NAKAPAG-USAP NA NG PERSONAL SI BRO. DONATO AT SI KUYA RYAN. HE, HE, HE... I AM ALSO IN COMMUNICATION WITH KUYA RYAN THESE DAYS.
ReplyDeleteHE TOLD ME THAT HE GOES TO THE TLM OF SSPX ONLY ONCE A MONTH. HE INSTEAD REGULARLY ATTENDS THE NOVUS ORDO IN THE CATHEDRAL OR IN THE CARMELITE CHAPEL OF DAVAO. IN FACT, FOR ABOUT THREE MONTHS HE WAS NOT ABLE TO ATTEND TLM BECAUSE OF HIS BUSY SCHEDULE IN WORK AND IN CFD BUT OF COURSE HE FULFILLS HIS SUNDAY OBLIGATIONS IN NOVUS ORDO MASSES.
BRO. RYAN HAS ALREADY ATTENDED BY NOVUS ORDO MASS AND BEING A FRIEND I WAS LOOKING AT HIM FROM TIME TO TIME THEN. I SAW HIM IN GREAT REVERENCE OF THE NOVUS ORDO LITURGY.
I HOPE THAT THIS OCCASION WILL ENLIGHTEN THE MINDS OF OUR CFD LEADERS TO BE VERY CAREFUL OF SSPX BECAUSE AFFILIATION WITH THEM EVEN THOUGH IMAGINED OR SIMPLY CONJECTURED CAN FRACTURE FRATERNAL COMMUNION IN THE GROUP AND AMONG MANY CATHOLIC ORGANIZATIONS. I KNOW THAT VERY WELL FROM EXPERIENCE. HE, HE, HE...
GOD BLESS YOU ALL. GOD BLESS CFD, ESPECIALLY OUR YOUNG MEMBERS.
dear Donato,
ReplyDeleteBaka naisip mo wala akong kopya sa FULL TEXT OF " SUMMURUM PONTIFICUM" NA YAN? hehehheh
(The Roman Missal promulgated by Paul VI is the ordinary expression of the 'Lex orandi' (Law of prayer) of the Catholic Church of the Latin Rite. Nonetheless, the Roman Missal promulgated by St. Pius V and reissued by Bl. John XXIII is to be considered as an extraordinary expression of that same 'Lex orandi'" (article 1 of the motu proprio).")
You accused me in your own perception huh hehehehehe
Let me clarify Both are expressions of the LEX ORANDI ( law of Prayer) of the catholic church; the Novus Ordo being the ordinary expression and the Vetus Ordo ( Romanae Missali 1962 )
as the extra ordinary expression.
These two expressions of the church Lex Orandi will in no any way to lead to a division in the Church Lex Credendi. You almost forgot the Lex Credendi bro Donato.
(You know Bro Jeff in your letter,hindi ko maiwasan na mag conclude na tutol ka talaga sa New Mass natin ngayon.}
Eh dapat ngayon palang sabihin ko sa iyo iwasan mo yan hehehehe
(Oh really. What really is the exact reason then? You cannot just say that it is just an excuse for you don't know well your Bishop. Did you talk to him? By the way, what did you do? Did you also wrote a letter to him? What was his response?
Bro. Donato remember that the forth vow before you become priest is " in the sevice to Crist and its vicar of Peter " they know that because they are a priest. Now what did you call there reaction after the mandatum of the Pope? they just ignore it at anung tawag mo doon ? obedience pa rin ba?
(It is the Roman Pontiff who decides what is or what is not a Catholic rite, and any rite recognized)
Bakit kailangan pa bang i recognise ang TLM?
Oh common......
(It is a sorrow for us to see you shut up in such a position, which very much thwarts the return to full communion that is desired.)
Oh common you violate the LEX CREDENDI huh
read my stand point above!!! When my faith is in disrespect I will never Shut Up.
Don't show me that way hehehehehehe
(inihambing mo lang sa isang SIOPAO,yan ba ang value ng Holly Mass mo comparing to siopao na lang.
Huwag nanan sanang ganyan Bro illogical yata?)
Maybe I will agree with you but since bro noel comprehend on what I mean there is no reason to affirm my self to accept your arguments heheheh.
I t is a simple logic and yet you can not meant it? but anyway I do not know if you only test me but I love TLM baka may alam ka na church diyan sa Manila na nag celebrate ng TLM samahan mo ako huh? If wala Eh wala tayung maga eh sila lang kasi ang nag celebrate sa Davao. Balik simba parin ako heheheheheh
jeff
Read it again so that you can comprehend it will.
(Yes, there are bishops that somehow ignore some Papal directives and mandates but then we have to pray for them instead of criticizing them.)
Yes but we pray also to the society remember Catholic din sila heheheheh
Dear Bro Jeff,
ReplyDelete(You know Bro Jeff in your letter hindi ko maiwasan na mag conclude na tutol ka talaga sa Holly Mass natin ngayon)
( E dapat ngayon pa lang sabihin ko sa iyo na iwasan mo na yan)Siryuso ka ba sa sinabi mo Bro Jeff o nagbibiro ka lang?kung siryuso ka sa sinabi mo,patawd po na hindi ko magawa yan ,hihintayin ko kung ano ang advice ng simbahan,piro kung sakaling nagbibiro ka lang,huwag naman sanang ganyan Bro Jeff,magbiro ka lang ng iba huwag lang tungkol sa ang Holly Mass natin ngayon.
( Baka may alam ka na Church diyan sa Manila na nag celebret ng TLM,samahan mo ako)Siryuso kaba o nagbibiro ka naman?Ang pakaintidi ko sa advice ni Father Abe,kung walang TLM sa isang lugar,mayron nanan tayong Holly Mass ngayon na NOVOS ORDO,doon tayo magsimba.
Bro Jeff alam ko na isa kang siminarista ,that is according to you kuya Ryan at sana kapag ikaw ay maging isang ganap pari,wala sana akong makita na abuso sa panahon ng iyong Holly Mass,aabangan ko yon....Brod Thank you to you letter I learn a lot from you.
God bless to you....
Bro Donato...
Thanks for the additional info Fr. and I learned also a lot.
ReplyDeleteDearest Sem. Jeffrey,
ReplyDeleteAs I reviewed your comments here, it seems that you are really close to the Society. You know, I don't want to be judgmental here but the manner you present your arguments seems to be contrary with that of the Catholic Church. Please forgive me if I'm wrong but in my reflection I can see in you the very reason why the Church discourages us in attending the TLM in the chapels of the Society of St. Pius X. You are becoming too critical in the New Order of the Mass. Forgive me but this is only my reflection.
You know, Traditionalist Catholics in union with the Pope doesn't have this kind of reasoning.
But one thing I'm still thankful to the Lord because you did not yet arrive (and hope you will not get into) with the conclusion of some of the SSPX members and supporters that the New Mass is the Mass of Modernism, Liberalism, of Ecumenism and that it intrinsically evil or harmful to the faith. We read all of these stuff in the internet. I'm hoping and praying that you will not come to that conclusion and that it will not enter into your mind.
Yes, the Society is Catholic but they are not in full communion with the Church. REMEMBER, THEY ARE NOT IN FULL COMMUNION WITH THE CHURCH. "TO QUALIFY AS CATHOLIC ONE MUST ALWAYS, BEFORE EVERYTHING, SEEK FULL COMMUNION WITH PETER.
Union with the Pope is a fundamental and non-negotiable hallmark of Catholicism. You know very well the situation of the Society. And this is sound and a serious reason that we should be cautious and vigilant in dealing with the SSPX.
In the words of Fr. Abe: "But as long as they are not yet in full Communion let us be wary of them. The fact that they are not yet in full communion in means there is something very very wrong in that society."
Loving the TLM is good but in doing so let us not also belittle or say bad things about the NOM.
In the words of Fr. Abe: YES. BOTH TLM AND NOVUS ORDO ARE VALID, CANONICAL AND CO-EQUAL. THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER SAYS SO. AND HE IS THE SUPREME AUTHORITY ON MATTERS OF FAITH AND MORALS IN THE CHURCH, OF COURSE INCLUDING LITURGICAL MATTERS... NOT THE SOCIETY OF NEVER MIND...
Sem. Jeffrey, I hope that you get my point. I am not against the TLM but of the Society and its criticism against the Mass. I don't hate them, i don't have hatred with them but I prayed that one day they will be reconciled with the Mother Church because I know they can be of help and service to the Church in many ways. But for the meantime, I refuse to go in any SSPX chapels.
Let us always be one in faith. Sentire cum Ecclesia.
God bless you.
Dapat ipatupad na dito sa Davao ang Summorum Pontificum. Dapat sana si Arcbishop Capalla na ang mag-initiate na magkaroon ng Tridentine Mass sa San Pedro Cathedral, kung ayaw niya e di si Bishop Rimando na lang or di na talaga nila alam pa'no isagawa TLM.
ReplyDeleteKung ayaw nyo sa SSPX puede naman mag-invite tayo ng FSSP priest. They are also traditionalist but in communion with the Holy See.
ReplyDeleteDear Father Abe,
ReplyDeleteThank you very much for this informative topic in your blog. I learned a lot from here and was able also to share my little knowledge about the topic.
Correct me if some of my comments here are wrong. You can always give me your comments if I am mistaken and I will be very happy to accept them.
Thank you Father for your guidance and help. We will always be praying for you and your ministry.
God bless you.
Fellow Catholic Faith Defenders,
ReplyDeleteI have read your exchanges. May I ask, if you wish to continue with the exchanges, do it privately in your own e-mails. Let us not burden Fr. Abe of posting every reply that each of you has.
To Fr. Abe,
my deepest and personal appreciation for having moderated and clarified some points in these exchanges. If I may request, this thread should end here.
Bro. Jub Alabastro
I AGREE WITH BRO. JUB. I THINK WE HAVE EXPRESSED ENOUGH AND IF THERE ARE SOME THINGS TO BE CLARIFIED STILL THE CFD MEMBERS CAN SETTLE IT AMONG THEMSELVES. THEY WILL GE GUIDED BY THEIR COMPETENT LEADERS ACCORDINGLY.
ReplyDeleteBro. Jeff, being a seminarian you are attending Novus Ordo daily. For sure you are doing so with love and respect. I think the reason why your messages are being misunderstood because your thoughts are not clearly expressed and your sentences are not grammatically polished. Being a former teacher in the seminary and former formator as well of the seminarians, I advise you to further developed your syntax and grammar.
GOD BLESS EVERYONE.
Fathe Abe/ Bro. Jub,
ReplyDeleteApproved without thinking.
Get well soon Father. Huwag masyadong magpapa stress. Convert the STRESSED into DESSERTS (eat well).
Pro Deo et Ecclesia.
Bro. Ryan
Thank you Bro. Ryan. Im OK na. Nagka fever ako yesterday e. Not because of this Blog or this post. He, he, he...
ReplyDeleteAng real reason e nagtatampo ako sa Superior ko. Imagine, bukas na ang MANG INASAL sa Sorsogon hindi pa ko nililibre ng Inasal na Manok with unlimited rice. He, he, he... Sinampalukan pa naman ang libreng sabaw doon. He, he, he... Pag hindi nya ko nilibre ngayong week-end siya ang bibigyan ko ng konsumisyon. He, he, he...
Father Abe,
ReplyDeleteHa.ha.ha. Buti naman Father at ok kana. Dumaan ako kahapun sa Totus Bookstore, bumili ako ng 2 volume books ni Anna Katharina Emmerich. Nagkausap din kami ni Henry regarding sa pagdating ni Steve Rey. We are also planning here in Davao with Jub and Yeti if we can grace the coming of Steve Rey in Ateneo de Davao, USEP and Stella Maris Academy.
Meanwhile, kausapin mo ang superior mo Father na ilibre kana niya. hehehe.
God bless Father.
Sub umbra Petri,
Bro. Ryan
SUB UMBRA PETRI [Under the Shadow of ST. PETER]. Indeed, we cling to the Chair of Peter. ALLELUIA. AMEN. GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
ReplyDeleteEveryone,
ReplyDeleteI would like to express my appreciation to all of you here in this blog. In many ways, this helped me a lot. But I agree with Bro Jub, we have to end it here.
May be God has its own reason what we have this now in this blog. We don't really know what are those reason. May be there is something wrong and God is reminding us of something. I believe that this will not happen without any reason at all. This will not go this far as well if everything is okay. Whatever is that, God only knows and I entrust that to Him.
So then, I have to go. This would be my last post in this topic. Thank you very much to all of you and most especially to Father Abe. You are truly a Father to us all. God bless you always.
Hope everything will be okay. If ever I caused pain to any of my brothers here, I'm so sorry. It is not my intention.
Thank you once again. God bless us all.
@ fr. Abe Thank you very much and I will cherish those words which came from you. I will developed my grammar skills first. I hope maka attend ako sa latin mass mo fr. heheheheheheh
ReplyDelete'till here jeffrey
@ to my fellow catholics thank you for the sharing and I learned a lot from you.
all my lapses here I accept it but maybe some are acceptable naman siguro hehehheheheheh
But anyway wala naman sigurong masama kung mangarap ako kahit isang tlm in every sunday
hindi lnag sa akin but for the sake of others who want this kind of celebration.
ty:
jeffrey
Welcome Jeff,
ReplyDeleteMost probably I can celebrate the TLM in Metro Manila, particularly Paranaque on July 10, 2010 9am. Hope you can attend.
One of the hot topic in the international media today was the police raid of the Bishops meeting in Belgium as part of the investigation of the child abuses committed by some priests and not only confiscating church records, computers and mobile phones but also digging holes to the graves of two former Bishops to find additional evidences.
ReplyDeleteThe church is being rock by left and right sexual abuses controversy either in Europe but also in the Americas.
One of Cardinal Ratzingers message before he became Pope Benedict XVI in response to some of the church controversy is "I am convinced that the crises in the church that we are experiencing today is to a large extent due to the disintegration of the liturgy."
This observation was also highlighted by Atty & Dr. Marcelo Bacalso, CFD on his radio program that the real enemy of the church is not from outside but within the church who committed liturgical abuses.
Dear Bro. Noel,
ReplyDeleteIt is true that there are liturgical abuses today. There are liturgical abuses being committed by some priests in the Novus Ordo and there are also DOGMATIC AND CANONICAL ABUSES being committed by the SSPX Bishops and Priests.
That is why, we must strengthen the Church and we can only do so by being in union with Peter THE ONE ENTRUSTED AND PRAYED FOR BY THE LORD TO 'STRENGTHEN HIS BRETHREN'.
Read carefully 1 Corinthians 9-11. THERE ST. PAUL LAMBASTED THE CHRISTIANS FOR THEIR LITURGICAL ABUSES.
So, liturgical abuses are present during the time of POPE PETER AND CARDINAL PAUL OF TARSUS! Liturgical abuses were present also before and after the COUNCIL OF TRENT. If there were no abuses there would be no PROTESTANT REVOLT. THE ABUSES THEN WERE MUCH MUCH MORE TERRIBLE THAN NOW. And yet their Mass was in Latin and Ad Orientem.
WHETHER THE MASS IS LATIN OR IN GREEK, AD ORIENTEM OR NOT WILL NOT LESSEN THE TEMPTATIONS OF LUST AND IMPURITIES THAT SATAN WILL HURL ON OUR SOULS. THE GRACE OF GOD THAT WILL PROTECT US FROM THE EVIL OF SATAN IS ALSO NOT CONDITIONED BY LATIN OR BY AD ORIENTEM WORSHIP. THE ISCARIOT BECAME A TRAITOR EVEN THOUGH HE WAS PRESENT IN THE LAST SUPPER CELEBRATED BY THE BEST AND THE GREATEST PRIEST IN THE WORLD - THE LORD JESUS HIMSELF.
The sexual sins of priests are NOT due to Liturgy but due to their MORAL DEGRADATION. It is unfair to blame on the Liturgy the immoral actions of somebody else. WE MUST NOT MAKE THE LITURGY AN ESCAPE GOAT OR A WHIPPING BOY OF OTHER'S IMMORALITIES.
HOW COME SEXUAL ABUSES ARE INCREASING NOW?
PORNOGRAPHY in Media, Internet, etc. This is the effect of SEXUAL REVOLUTION that started in the 60's and still on-going until now. Prior to these decades, just reading Lady's Charterly Lover was already terrible and today that erotic novel is very very minimal incomparison with the colored, moving pornographic materials easily accessible everywhere. SO, POOR LITURGY, BEING BLAMED FOR SOMETHING THAT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO OF.
Then, the Psychology of SIGMUND FREUD which became dominant in the last century until now. Freud declared man as primarily a SEXUAL BEING and for that many of the taboos previously are seen as common or normal today.
THESE ARE, FOR ME, THE MAJOR REASONS FOR THE INCREASE OF SEXUAL ABUSES NOT THE LITURGY. IN FACT, SEXUAL ABUSES ARE INCREASING TOO AMONG PROTESTANTS AND AMONG MOSLEMS AND AMONG BUDDHISTS. SHALL WE ALSO BLAME THE LITURGY FOR THE INCREASE OF SEXUAL ABUSES IN SOUTHEREN BAPTISTS CHURCHES?
The real enemy of the Church is inside and outside. The SSPX is both because it is OUTSIDE yet pretending to be INSIDE. That is why it is very very dangerous.
Dear Father Abe,
ReplyDeleteDominos vobiscum,
I have just read your blog regarding the SSPX and the so-called attachment of CFD's and BECians to it. Let me clarify the issue.
I'm Arthur Agullana Jr, current president of CFD-usep.
To Anonymous:
[Sana totoo ang mga pinagsasabi ni Sir Ryan.]
---As what Father Abe defended, Bro. Ryan is telling the truth. He's a credible source when it comes to Church issues. Kung BEC member ka na sana last year, di mo na siguro itatanong ang mga bagay na ito. He presented us series of lectures and Church documents regarding SSPX before letting us go to their masses.
[Maitanong ko lang kung bakit may mga kasama siyang estudyante na katulad ko - mga BEC at CFD - USEP kapag magsisimba siya doon?]
---Bakit kami sumama? It's because we want to experience the Sacred, sublime and traditional Eucharistic Celebration celebrated by most Bishops and Priests, and attended by All the Saints throughout the ages.
Let me ask you, bakit ka sumama?
[Sa pagkakaalam ko ay mga mga estudyante na nga na sumama sa mga SSPX Pilgrimages sa Bohol.Ano ba ang ibig sabihin nito? Okay lang po ba na ganun ang gawin niya?]
---Nakasama ako sa BOHOL pilgrimage, at sa tingin ko walang masama doon. Ang mga simbahan na pinuntahan namin don ay hindi SSPX Churches kundi Diocesan Churches. Sa totoo nga sinasadyang buksan ang mga simbahan doon para i-accomodate ang SSPX.
Ano ang ibig sabihin nito? You're questioning are attachment to the group, right?
Let me tell you. Pilgrimage ang pinunta namin doon, not the allegiance to the SSPX. We are not members of the society. Ang attachment namin sa kanila is purely liturgical.
And remember this, the BEC/CFD/YFC has this motto, "PRO DEO ET ECCLESIA"- For GOd and the Church.
[Paano kung ma absorb namin ang mentality at pag uugali ng mga SSPX laban sa simbahan at sa Papa?]
---If you are familiar with the issue, hindi talaga stand ng SSPX na laban sila sa simbahan o sa Santo Papa. Kaya nga lift up na ang excommunication.
[Di na po ako nagpupunta doon kaso yong mga kakilala ko ay sige pa rin.]
---We continue attending the mass because we have observe Its Sacredness. Nasa sayo yan kung ayaw mong matuto sa tradisyon.
to Father Abe:
Thank You Father, for acknowledging all questions of Anonymous and ours as well.
Keep on feeding our eager young minds about the splendors of the Church.
God bless you Father.
Sub umbra Petri.
Arthur Agullana Jr.
CFD President
CFD-USEP Chapter.
Obrero, Davao City
Yes you are definitely right Fr. that the enemy of the church are within inside and outside the church and in addition to that, Pope Benedict XVI said on his visit to Lisbon Portugal "The greatest persecution of the church doesn't come from enemies on the outside but is born from the sins within the church," and blamed the church's own sins for the clerical abuse scandal — not a campaign mounted by outsiders.
ReplyDeleteI believe that this a wake up call not only to ordinary catholics but also to the entire church members and clergies to profoundly relearn penitence, accept purification, learn forgiveness but also justice.
Thanks and God bless.
Dear Father,
ReplyDeleteAlam mo naman pala na ang SSPX ay a real enemy of the Church.Bakit ok lang sa iyo na ang mga CFD na katulad nina Sir Ryan ay pumasok pa doon upang magsimba na ang gruppong pinasukan nila ay very dangerous pala?kahit na ang TLM lang ang pakay nila piro ang pinasukan nila ay SSPX parin?
SALAMAT FATHER...
Dear Bro. Arthur,
ReplyDeleteThank you very much for this message which I think further clarified things for us.
Sorry for the late posting. I was in Manila for some important matters and also attended the inauguration of Pres. Noynoy Aquino at Quirino Grandstand.
God bless you and CFD Davao
Dear Bro. Noel,
ReplyDeleteVery true. Indeed, Satan is penetrating the Church through our personal sins. Let us join together to call on the Holy Spirit to help us be santified and purified from our sinfulness.
Also, your message about the liturgical abuses must not be set aside as well. That is a very valid concern that must be addressed also.
God bless you too.
Dear Anonymous,
ReplyDelete[Alam mo naman pala na ang SSPX ay a real enemy of the Church.Bakit ok lang sa iyo na ang mga CFD na katulad nina Sir Ryan ay pumasok pa doon upang magsimba na ang gruppong pinasukan nila ay very dangerous pala?]
The SSPX as a group officially is not an enemy of the Church but a group not in full communion with the Church. However, there are a lot of members of the said group that are very bitterly against the Pope and the Catholic Church... It is against these people that I am worry of.
We know for the fact that there are some Catholics who are deeply inloved with the Tridentine Latin Mass. It is their right to do so and it is the duty of the Church to provide TLM for them. In case of the CFD in Davao their Archbishop refused to allow his priests to celebrate the TLM. So, it is natural that the TLM lovers among Catholics will be attracted by SSPX worships.
The SSPX masses are valid but as explained by Cardinal Pell it is not advisable to attend there because they are not in communion with the Holy See. However, there is no specific law prohibing and punishing Catholics going to SSPX masses.
[kahit na ang TLM lang ang pakay nila piro ang pinasukan nila ay SSPX parin?]
I understand. However, being a father it is not my duty to simply prohibit and threatened our brethren when the Pope himself is not doing so, much more our Bishops.
Let us be reasonable and patient and understanding with one another. As St. Paul says: THOSE WHO ARE STRONG IN FAITH MUST BE GENTLE WITH WITH THE SCRUPLES OF THE WEAK. If our brothers love TLM so much I will not create negative issues against them for that. The same thing to those who don't want to attend TLM.
What I am condemning are the anti-Catholic or Anti-Pope or Anti-Novus Ordo attitude existing in SSPX not the persons themselves.
On the part of Bro. Ryan and his students, what I know is that they also frequently attending Parish Masses and a TLM of one Monsignor not the SSPX anymore.
SALAMAT FATHER...
Dear Bro Arthur,
ReplyDeleteAyon po sa turo ng ating simbahan,Traditional Latin Mass and Novos Ordo is co equall in nature.
so ibig sabihin ther is no defference beetween latin mass and our holly mass today.
Bakit pa kayo pumasok doon nang dahil lang sa TLM na mayron naman tayong Holly Mass na accepted ng ating Church Magesterium?
Thank you so match Bro Arthur and God Bless to you...I learn a lot from you....
Dear Father Abe,
ReplyDeleteThank you so match your effort to share your knowledge regarding this matter.Father I really understand your side.
Father,Bakit dito sa Davao City ay hindi pwiding magkaroon ng Latin Mass upang ang mga CFD dito o ang mga tao dito na gusto magkaroon ng Latin mass,wala na silang dahilan upang pumasok sa SSPX ng dahil lang sa TLM? Sana Father magkaroon ng Latin Mass dito sa Davao city.
Thank you....
Dear Bro Arthur,
ReplyDeletePaulit- ulit ko pong binasa ang letter mo,maraming salamat at may natutunan din ako,nguint para sa akin it is very illogical na pumasok ka sa isang pangkat pagkatapos sabihin mo na you are not member to the group,let me an example isa kang Katoliko ngunit during sunday nagsimba ka sa INC,hindi lamang isang bisis kung napkaraming bisis,hindi lamang isang buwan kung mahgit pa ng isang taon.Ano ibig sabihin doon siyempri isa ka ng ring kasapi ng INC.Katulad sa inyo mi Sir Ryan ay pumasok SSPX hindi lamang isang bisis ngunit maraming bisis kahit sabihin nyo na TLM lang pakay ninyo doon,ngunit hindi ninyo masisi na ang mga taong nanonod sa ginagawa ninnyo ay magsabi o magtanong na kaspi kayo sa pangkat na yan..
MAGANDANG GABI PO....
Dear Father Abe,
ReplyDeletePax vobis!
Thank you so much for posting my comment Father. I do hope anonymous will be more humble in understanding the issue and will be more gentle in asking questions.
Your Paternal advices are essential in this discussion.
In Christ Jesus,
Arthur
This is indeed a very nice topic Fr. of which is seldom discuss. Thanks a lot for the sharing and really, I was excited to read some of the post.
ReplyDelete[Father,Bakit dito sa Davao City ay hindi pwiding magkaroon ng Latin Mass upang ang mga CFD dito o ang mga tao dito na gusto magkaroon ng Latin mass,wala na silang dahilan upang pumasok sa SSPX ng dahil lang sa TLM? Sana Father magkaroon ng Latin Mass dito sa Davao city.]
ReplyDeleteBagamat nag-utos na ang Santo Papa na ang mga pari ay dapat sumunod sa request ng mga mananampalataya na magmisa ng TLM may mga pari at obispo na hindi ginagawa ito. Yan ang tutuo at nakakalungkot na bagay.
Subalit kung atin silang kakausapin o tatanungin ay meron din silang magaganda at nararapat na kadahilanan.
First, they don't want SSPX to infiltrate their parish or diocese. Kasi once TLM is celebrated in a place the SSPX usually infiltrates as well. That group thrive on traditional Catholics like sucking parasites. Soon, the traditional Catholics who are so inloved with the Church will become anti-Pope and anti-Vatican, anti-Bishops, etc.
Second, it endangers liturgical and canonical unity. It will appear that the Church is not united liturgically. Even though officially the TLM and the Novus Ordo forms one Latin Rite, in practicality many TLM lovers do not accept the Novus Ordo thus the deman for TLM is not simply an expression of love to that particular form of the Latin Rite but a rejection of the Novus Ordo as well and a rejection of the authority of Pope John XXIII, Pope Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul the Great and Benedict XVI.
In as much as we reject the abuses of the liberals we are also weary and must reject as well the disobedience of the ultra conservatives.
Dear Father,
ReplyDeleteAyon sa letter mo,nag-utos ang Sto Papa na magakaroon ng TLM sa Davao City,ngunit may mga pari at obispo na hindi nila ginawa kasi mayroon din silang dahilan na maganda at nararapat na kadahilanan.
Ang tanong lang po Father,ang mga dahilan na yan ay accepted ng ating Church Magestirium or the teaching authority of the church?
Father Thank you very match you time and effort to share your knowledge regarding this matter...
Hope you understand my situation..
GOD BLESS TO YOU FATHER..
O my God. Ang utos ng Papa for TLM is not for DAvao but for the whole world and for all priest.
ReplyDeleteThe reasons I gave are not the reasons of the Diocese of Davao but based on my dialogue with some priests-friends. I am sharing personal opinions.
PLEASE DON'T CONFUSE MY STATEMENTS. MY BLOG IS NOT THE BLOG OF THE MAGISTERIUM BUT MY PERSONAL. UNTIL I POST THE OFFICIAL STATEMENTS FROM CBCP OR AN OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT FROM A BISHOP OR FROM HOLY SEE MY SHARINGS ARE PERSONAL IN NATURE.
PLEASE DON'T CONFUSE.
Dear Bro. Arthur,
ReplyDeleteGood day to you!
Thank you very much for the comment. In a way, I come to know many things that CFD/BEC has been doing all these years.
I was once a member of the BEC/CFD during our time. Do you know Kuya Hector? Their group were ahead of us for two years. But we are close to them. Kuya Hec was also a President of that organization too. And you know him, he was also inclined to Traditionalism. He was also attending the SSPX Masses before but I learned that he stopped.
However, during their time we saw how Kuya Hector and Kuya Red (a former CFD USEP President too) steadfastly defend and fought against SSPX influences. Kuya Ryan on that time went to the extreme. He was always supportive with the SSPX since then. He don't like the Novus Ordo. They were not in good terms with Kuya Hector because of it. By the way, Are they okay now? I hope so. But you know, I'm happy to know through this thread that Kuya Ryan is back with the Church because during those times according to what i heard his position cannot anymore be accepted. He was even banned from conducting lectures in CFD USEP during that time.
Based from your comment, the situation is quite different now. Somehow, he influenced you and the group that much. I'm not putting malice to the person of Kuya Ryan but I think it would also be good that you will know the history of CFD USEP - the part of that history that may be you don't know. I knew it because I'm part of it.
You know, CFD USEP during our time was true to its motto: PRO DEO ET ECCLESIA and I hope it is still true today.
Thank you.
Kaya nga Father,ang sabi mo kasi,may mga pari at obispo na hindi ginawa ang utos Papa na magkaroon ng TLM sa buong mundo dahil may mga maganda at nararapat silang dahilan.Ang tanong lang po ang mga dahilan na ba yan ay sinasang-ayunan ba ng ating Papa o hindi?
ReplyDeleteSALAMAT FATHER SANA NAKUHA MO ANG PUNTO KO...
Dear Brother Arthur,
ReplyDeleteI like you're explanation. You are honest enough. You did the right thing. However, let me give you some of my comments on your message. I hope that would be okay to you.
You have a credible source. That's good and that's the right thing to have. Father Abe is for sure one of them. I just hope that your source also gave you good things and information about the NOM because the way you wrote your letter it is as if only the TLM is the most sacred and sublime celebration of the Eucharist.
What are the topics of that series of lectures? I hope those were precautionary topics about the SSPX. Hope those topics were meant for all of you to be vigilant in dealing with this group. I hope you don't mind this because Bro. Jeffrey as I read also his post seems to imbibed some things and idea from the society.
I don't know if joining their pilgrimages is a good idea. I leave it to Father Abe to discuss. I am just concern here because for me this is one way of supporting the society.
I hope that the SSPX is not really against the Popes and the Church after Vatican II. Have you read some of their articles about the Popes and the Church after VAtican II? You have to exposed to the reality as well. A re-quote a given quotation above from my fellow anonymous:
"EVEN IF THE MEMBER OF YOUR FRATERNITY RECOGNIZE THE LEGITIMACY OF THE CURRENT POPE, JOHN PAUL II (the reigning Pope of the time when the letter was written), AND RECOGNIZE HIM AS THE TRUE SUCCESSOR OF PETER AND THE LEGITIMATE VICAR OF CHRIST, THE LANGUAGE OFTEN USED BY CERTAIN OF YOU IS NOT VERY RESPECTFUL."
See it?
Another, do you really mean what you've written above that the TLM is the Mass of ALL THE SAINTS? Are you sure of that? You know, Father Abe discussed it above already? Come on, who fed you with that inaccurate information. That's not true. Sts. Peter and Paul were some of the saints that were not able to attend the TLM.
I don't know why all these things happened. But we to be faithful to the Church. The DEPOSIT OF FAITH has been entrusted to the Church and guarded by his successor. The SSPX is not its custodian. Remember that always.
God bless you.
[Kaya nga Father,ang sabi mo kasi,may mga pari at obispo na hindi ginawa ang utos Papa na magkaroon ng TLM sa buong mundo dahil may mga maganda at nararapat silang dahilan.Ang tanong lang po ang mga dahilan na ba yan ay sinasang-ayunan ba ng ating Papa o hindi?]
ReplyDeleteHINDI LAHAT NG DESISYON NG MGA OBISPO NG BUONG MUNDO AY DAPAT SANG-AYUNAN NG SANTO PAPA. KAYA NGA MAY MGA OBISPO SA BAWAT LUGAR, BAWAT ISA SA KANILA AY SUCCESSOR OF THE APOTSLES. ANG MGA MATITINDING PROBLEMA LANG ANG NAKARARATING SA SANTO PAPA.
THE SIMPLE PROBLEMS IN PARISHES AY DAPAT LUTASIN NG PARISH PRIESTS. KAYA DAPAT TAYONG MAGING MASUNURIN SA PARISH PRIEST NATIN. ANG PROBLEMS NG DIOCESE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE HINDI NA PINARARATING PA SA SANTO PAPA YAN. EACH BISHOP IS THE SUPREME ADMINISTRATOR, LEGISLATOR AND JUDGE OF FAITH AND MORALS IN HIS DIOCESE.
KAYA PATI PA BA NAMAN ANG SIMPLENG BAGAY NA YAN IPAPADALA MO PA SA SANTO PAPA. KUNG HINDI MO SUSUNDIN ANG OBISPO MO, HINDI MO RIN SUSUNDIN ANG SANTO PAPA MO. KAPAG ANG OBISPO AY HINDI PUMAYAG NA MAG TLM THEN MAGING MALIGAYA KA SA NOVUS ORDO. HINDI YUNG PUPUNTA KA SA ISANG GRUPO NA REBELLIOUS SA POPE.
[SALAMAT FATHER SANA NAKUHA MO ANG PUNTO KO...]
YOU ARE WELCOME. I HAVE GIVEN YOU REASONS WHY IN SOME AREAS THE TLM ARE NOT BEING IMPLEMENTED. SUBALIT HINDI KO ALAM ANG REASONS NG ARCHBISHOP OF DAVAO. PERO KUNG AKO DAVAOENOS I WILL LOVE AND RESPECT MY ARCHBISHOP WITH OR WITHOUT THE TLM. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WITH OR WITHOUT THE TLM. STS. PETER AND PAUL WERE CATHOLICS BUT THEY NEVER CELEBRATED THE MASS IN TLM.
MY SUGGESTION IS THAT LOVE YOUR BISHOP MORE THAN THE SSPX. I HAVE TO PUT MY CONFIDENCE AND TRUST ON MY SHEPHERD NOT ON STRANGERS PRETENDING TO BE MY SHEPHERD.
REPLY OF BRO. RYAN 1
ReplyDeleteDear CFD-USEP BATCH 05
I'm happy that you become part of this thread. May I know you so that I can convey to you the current undertakings of our team? Same as what Bro. Donato did, we settled his clarifications once and for all.
However, it seems that some of your information needs further clarification for us to protect the integrity of our group (CFD)
Here are my response(s)
[However, during their time we saw how Kuya Hector and Kuya Red (a former CFD USEP President too) steadfastly defend and fought against SSPX influences.]
Ans. I am not influenced by the Society. It doesn’t mean that once you open a topic about abuses, it is ipso facto influenced by the Society. The Gregorian Apologetics become our backbone towards healthy discussion on the matter. It is admitted that during those times, there were some polemics, but those polemics brought us learning that it is not good and healthy to vehemently criticize Vatican II. That is why, our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI suggested to interpret Vatican II in the light of the Tradition. That Vatican II is a hermeneutic continuity of the past which the three (3) of us agreed. For your information, one of our "walking encyclopedia" CFD's debated one of the priests of the Society. He loves the TLM too.
[Kuya Ryan on that time went to the extreme. He was always supportive with the SSPX since then.]
Ans. Extreme of condemning the abuses which the Holy Father himself reiterated in his accompanied letter to the Bishops of the world in the Summorum Pontificum "This occurred above all because in many places celebrations were not faithful to the prescriptions of the new Missal, but the latter actually was understood as authorizing or even requiring creativity, which frequently led to deformations of the liturgy which were hard to bear. I am speaking from experience, since I too lived through that period with all its hopes and its confusion. And I have seen how arbitrary deformations of the liturgy caused deep pain to individuals totally rooted in the faith of the Church.", that's the very words by the Holy Father himself but not supportive with the Society since there were legitimate groups in the Church today who do the same constructive criticisms (FSSP/Alliance of the Two Hearts/ FFI/ SSJV/ Una Voce)
[He don't like the Novus Ordo.]
Ans. Of course I like both Novus Ordo/ Forma Ordinaria and TLM/ Forma Extraordinaria. What I don’t like are the abuses both in the Ordinary Form and the Extra-ordinary Form (click on the internet on De Defectibus (TLM) and Redemptionis Sacramentum (Novus Ordo).
[They were not in good terms with Kuya Hector because of it. By the way, Are they okay now? I hope so.]
Ans.I beg your indulgence bro but it seems you’re not updated. Bro. Hector and I are actually together even before. As I said, those were the days that polemics had become part of our growth as defenders of the Holy Faith. In fact Bro. Hector is the VP-external of the CFD-San Pedro and I am the VP-Internal Affairs. Both of us are current members of the National Board of Governors in the National level of the Catholic Faith Defenders Inc. We are together during Sundays since we are both faculty teachers in the school where we teach Christology/ Ecclesiology/ Sacraments/ Salvation History and other related religious studies.
REPLY OF BRO. RYAN 2
ReplyDelete[But you know, I'm happy to know through this thread that Kuya Ryan is back with the Church]
Ans. Bro, I never left the Church. I can even sign the apostle’s creed in my own blood same as what our saints done (although I’m not one of them) As I said, those were intellectual discussions which sometimes, feelings were involved because of our burning desire for the defense of the Faith.
[because during those times according to what i heard his position cannot anymore be accepted.]
Ans. As I said, what I don’t like are the abuses both in the Ordinary Form and the Extra-ordinary Form (click on the internet on De Defectibus (TLM) and Redemptionis Sacramentum (Novus Ordo). Let’s be honest, both forms of the Roman Rite had sometimes being abused by some of our pastors.
[He was even banned from conducting lectures in CFD USEP during that time.]
Ans. I was not banned. Neither a comrade told me not to speak out on the abuses. It was fitting to concentrate on the commonality rather than the differences. I prefer not to talk it to the crowd at large.
REPLY OF BRO. RYAN 3
ReplyDelete[Based from your comment, the situation is quite different now. Somehow, he influenced you and the group that much. I'm not putting malice to the person of Kuya Ryan but I think it would also be good that you will know the history of CFD USEP - the part of that history that may be you don't know.]
Ans. It would be nice also Bro if you have time, you visit the school so that you may impart also the learning who have had during your yesteryears in the CFD-USEP. Also kindly reiterate your experiences so that they’ll become more interested in apologetics which you think also be good that the students will know the history of CFD-USEP- the part of that history that may be they don’t know. I consider you as my younger brother. Feel free to come. Every year Bro we are producing professional engineers/ teachers and alike which are definitely knights in defending the Holy Catholic Faith. I know you are one of them.
[I knew it because I'm part of it.]
Ans. I’m waiting also for your future visits Bro. if you still consider yourself as part of CFD. You can email me personally ltnayr@yahoo.com . In the coming weeks I will be posting some of the highlight events in the CFD-USEP Chapter as well as our National CFD. They are now flying high for the Defense of the Gospel.
[You know, CFD USEP during our time was true to its motto: PRO DEO ET ECCLESIA and I hope it is still true today.]
Ans. Rest assured Bro that it is crystallizing more and more everyday.
I hope it settles the fine tuning. God bless.
Pro Deo et Ecclesia,
Kuya Ryan
REPLY OF BRO. RYAN 1
ReplyDeleteDear CFD-USEP BATCH 05
I'm happy that you become part of this thread. May I know you so that I can convey to you the current undertakings of our team? Same as what Bro. Donato did, we settled his clarifications once and for all.
However, it seems that some of your information needs further clarification for us to protect the integrity of our group (CFD)
Here are my response(s)
[However, during their time we saw how Kuya Hector and Kuya Red (a former CFD USEP President too) steadfastly defend and fought against SSPX influences.]
Ans. I am not influenced by the Society. It doesn’t mean that once you open a topic about abuses, it is ipso facto influenced by the Society. The Gregorian Apologetics become our backbone towards healthy discussion on the matter. It is admitted that during those times, there were some polemics, but those polemics brought us learning that it is not good and healthy to vehemently criticize Vatican II. That is why, our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI suggested to interpret Vatican II in the light of the Tradition. That Vatican II is a hermeneutic continuity of the past which the three (3) of us agreed. For your information, one of our "walking encyclopedia" CFD's debated one of the priests of the Society. He loves the TLM too.
[Kuya Ryan on that time went to the extreme. He was always supportive with the SSPX since then.]
Ans. Extreme of condemning the abuses which the Holy Father himself reiterated in his accompanied letter to the Bishops of the world in the Summorum Pontificum "This occurred above all because in many places celebrations were not faithful to the prescriptions of the new Missal, but the latter actually was understood as authorizing or even requiring creativity, which frequently led to deformations of the liturgy which were hard to bear. I am speaking from experience, since I too lived through that period with all its hopes and its confusion. And I have seen how arbitrary deformations of the liturgy caused deep pain to individuals totally rooted in the faith of the Church.", that's the very words by the Holy Father himself but not supportive with the Society since there were legitimate groups in the Church today who do the same constructive criticisms (FSSP/Alliance of the Two Hearts/ FFI/ SSJV/ Una Voce)
[He don't like the Novus Ordo.]
Ans. Of course I like both Novus Ordo/ Forma Ordinaria and TLM/ Forma Extraordinaria. What I don’t like are the abuses both in the Ordinary Form and the Extra-ordinary Form (click on the internet on De Defectibus (TLM) and Redemptionis Sacramentum (Novus Ordo).
[They were not in good terms with Kuya Hector because of it. By the way, Are they okay now? I hope so.]
Ans.I beg your indulgence bro but it seems you’re not updated. Bro. Hector and I are actually together even before. As I said, those were the days that polemics had become part of our growth as defenders of the Holy Faith. In fact Bro. Hector is the VP-external of the CFD-San Pedro and I am the VP-Internal Affairs. Both of us are current members of the National Board of Governors in the National level of the Catholic Faith Defenders Inc. We are together during Sundays since we are both faculty teachers in the school where we teach Christology/ Ecclesiology/ Sacraments/ Salvation History and other related religious studies.
REPLY OF BRO. RYAN 2
ReplyDelete[But you know, I'm happy to know through this thread that Kuya Ryan is back with the Church]
Ans. Bro, I never left the Church. I can even sign the apostle’s creed in my own blood same as what our saints done (although I’m not one of them) As I said, those were intellectual discussions which sometimes, feelings were involved because of our burning desire for the defense of the Faith.
[because during those times according to what i heard his position cannot anymore be accepted.]
Ans. As I said, what I don’t like are the abuses both in the Ordinary Form and the Extra-ordinary Form (click on the internet on De Defectibus (TLM) and Redemptionis Sacramentum (Novus Ordo). Let’s be honest, both forms of the Roman Rite had sometimes being abused by some of our pastors.
[He was even banned from conducting lectures in CFD USEP during that time.]
Ans. I was not banned. Neither a comrade told me not to speak out on the abuses. It was fitting to concentrate on the commonality rather than the differences. I prefer not to talk it to the crowd at large.
REPLY OF BRO. RYAN 3
ReplyDelete[Based from your comment, the situation is quite different now. Somehow, he influenced you and the group that much. I'm not putting malice to the person of Kuya Ryan but I think it would also be good that you will know the history of CFD USEP - the part of that history that may be you don't know.]
Ans. It would be nice also Bro if you have time, you visit the school so that you may impart also the learning who have had during your yesteryears in the CFD-USEP. Also kindly reiterate your experiences so that they’ll become more interested in apologetics which you think also be good that the students will know the history of CFD-USEP- the part of that history that may be they don’t know. I consider you as my younger brother. Feel free to come. Every year Bro we are producing professional engineers/ teachers and alike which are definitely knights in defending the Holy Catholic Faith. I know you are one of them.
[I knew it because I'm part of it.]
Ans. I’m waiting also for your future visits Bro. if you still consider yourself as part of CFD. You can email me personally ltnayr@yahoo.com . In the coming weeks I will be posting some of the highlight events in the CFD-USEP Chapter as well as our National CFD. They are now flying high for the Defense of the Gospel.
[You know, CFD USEP during our time was true to its motto: PRO DEO ET ECCLESIA and I hope it is still true today.]
Ans. Rest assured Bro that it is crystallizing more and more everyday.
I hope it settles the fine tuning. God bless.
Pro Deo et Ecclesia,
Kuya Ryan
MY DEAR BROTHERS. THIS LETTER OF BRO. RYAN IS DEFINITIVE AND CRYSTAL CLEAR. I HOPE THAT WE CAN CLOSE THIS TOPIC HERE AND LET THE CFD MEMBERS AND OFFICIALS DISCUSS THE MINOR DETAILS AND CONCERNS IN THEIR OWN GROUP.
ReplyDeleteINSTEAD OF ARGUING AMONG OURSELVES LET US FOCUS OUR GUNS ON THE HERETICS. HERE IS ONE THAT REQUIRES THE CFD ATTENTION:
http://thesplendorofthechurch.blogspot.com/2010/06/happy-feastday-sorsogon-happy-sts-peter.html
PLEASE READ THE COMMENT NO. 3.
my dear father, Abe
ReplyDeleteWhat is the name of the church that you'll celebrating the TLM specifically in Mandaluyong?
and the proper place so that it is easy for me to attend of your celebration
thanks Sem jeff.
Dear Jeff,
ReplyDeletePlease give me your c.p. number and I will share to you. I will not give it here because the enemies of the faith might attack my person. They are so angry at me these days. He, he, he...
Dear Jeff,
ReplyDeleteO sorry for failing to informed you about the TLM in Jaleville, Paranaque. I was not able to receive your message before leaving for Manila. I saw it only yesterday. Tapos na ang TLM. Next time na lang.
My apology again.
God bless you.
nothing to be sorry fr. Abe anyway you have my contact already to me
ReplyDeleteGod bless
sem jeff
Thanks Bro. Jeff.
ReplyDeleteDear Father,
ReplyDeleteHindi ko po alam kung saan ko i post ang tanong na ito piro dito na lang po.
Father ito po bang The Last Supper ay Catholic Mass o hindi?
Maraming salamat po.
ANG LAST SUPPER AY PAREHONG PASSOVER FEAST CELEBRATION NG JUDAISM AT HOLY MASS. YUNG PART NA BINASBASAN NI CRISTO ANG TINAPAY AT ALAK UPANG MAGING KANYANG KATAWAN AT DUGO AY SIYANG UNANG MISA NG SANTA IGLESIA.
ReplyDeleteSalamat po Father..
ReplyDeleteAng mga SSPX kasi ayaw nilang taggapin na ang Last Super at unang misa ng Catholic Churh.Hindi daw yan misa ayong sa kanila....