An Exchange with An Atheist, Part 2

Apse painting depicting the Lord Jesus as the Pantocrator or the All-Powerful King.

Ateo said...

Wow, I like History and Literature. Philosophy, not much, except for the logic part which is quite useful.

But Theology? That's just like fictional literature, is it not? :)

July 20, 2010 9:01 PM

Fr. Abe, CRS said...

Will you please define for me what is fiction and what is literature? What are the reasons why you likened theology to a fictional literature? Is theology a piece of literature?

July 20, 2010 9:09 PM

Ateo said...

Fiction is a literary piece that is not based on actual historical account but is a product of imagination. Literature is a written intellectual work. The Bible is a literary fiction.

Theology is a study of God. It is a fiction because God cannot be proven scientifically. He/She can be proven by faith, which is not a scientific test.

The Aesop's Fables were written by Aesop; the Fairy Tales by Hans Christian Andersen; the Old Testament by bored scribes in exile in Babylon; and New Testament by the "apostle" Paul and his imaginative scribes. They are all fictions, but I like the Andersen's Fairy Tales best. :)

July 21, 2010 10:14 AM

Fr. Abe, CRS said...

[Fiction is a literary piece that is not based on actual historical account but is a product of imagination.]

OBVIOUSLY THEOLOGY IS NOT A LITERARY PIECE BUT A STUDY OF GOD. AND THEREFORE YOUR QUESTION WHETHER IT IS FICTIONAL IS ILLOGICAL.

[Literature is a written intellectual work.]

THEOLOGY IS NOT A WRITTEN INTELLECTUAL WORK AND THEREFORE IT PROVES ALL THE MORE THAT YOUR QUESTION IS ILLOGICAL.

[The Bible is a literary fiction.]

HA, HA, HA... THAT IS A PRODUCT OF YOUR OWN IMAGINATION. YOU ARE NOT BEING SCIENTIFIC. BECAUSE THE BIBLE IS A COLLECTION OF DOCUMENTS THAT INCLUDES HISTORICAL ACCOUNTS. MOST THOUGH ARE LITERARY EXPRESSIONS OF FAITH AND OTHERS ARE TESTIMONIES OF PERSONAL EXPERIENCES.

UNLESS YOU CAN SCIENTIFICALLY DISPROVE THE HISTORICAL ACCOUNTS AND THE TESTIMONIES YOUR DENIAL IS JUST GARBAGE AND DOES NOT COUNT FOR ANYTHING. FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU WILL CLAIM THAT THE MIRACLE ON THE SEA OF GALILEE DIDN'T TAKE PLACE, YOU HAVE TO PRESENT TO ME A WITNESS PRESENT ON THE SEA OF GALILEE DURING THE TIME OF JESUS DISPROVING THAT SUCH A STORM AND CALMING OF THE STORM EVER OCCURRED IN THE AREA. If Galilean fishermen named Peter son of Jonas with Andrew and John sons of Zebedee testify that they were on the Lake of Gennesaret with their teacher Jesus and suddenly they were caught by storm and their teacher powerfully ordered the water and the wind to be serene and they obeyed you need to give me a counter testimony to the contrary. Another Galilean who lived of the same age and was regularly fishing in the same lake but nothing of that sort ever happened. Do you have such a witness? A credible one? Because the witnesses for our side were imprisoned, tortured and murdered by your likes yet they didn't budged. They were steadfast in their testimony. That is scientific. Any court of law relies on consistent and reliable and credible testimonies to determine the truth.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE NOW? YOUR PROTESTATIONS THAT THE BIBLE IS FICTION? HA,HA,HA... THAT'S GARBAGE BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE COMPETENCE TO DENY IT. YOU WERE NOT THERE AND HAVE NOT PRESENTED AN ALTERNATE PROOF TO SHOW THE CONTRARY.

[Theology is a study of God. It is a fiction because God cannot be proven scientifically.]

I THINK THIS IS THE MOST ILLOGICAL THING THAT I HAVE HEARD FROM YOUR KIND, ATEO OR WHOEVER. THE WORKS OF SHAKESPEARE ARE WORKS OF FICTION YET THEY CAN BE STUDIED, ANALYZED AND BE PROVEN SCIENTIFICALLY. TO SAY THAT SOMETHING IS FICTION BECAUSE IT CANNOT BE PROVEN SICENTIFICALLY IS PATHETIC MANIFESTATION OF YOUR FICTIONAL IMAGINATION. BECAUSE WORKS OF FICTIONS ARE CALLED SUCH BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN PROVEN SCIENTIFICALLY THAT THEY ARE SUCH... 'FICTION'. CINDERELLA IS FICTION BECAUSE IT IS HISTORICALLY PROVEN AS SUCH AND HARRY POTTER IS FICTION BECAUSE THE AUTHOR NEVER CLAIMED IT TO BE TRUE... IT IS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING PRESENTED AS FICTION.

NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE IGNORANT OF WHAT GOD IS OR YOU CANNOT FATHOM HIS EXISTENCE IT DOES NOT MAKE THEOLOGY A FICTION LITERATURE. HA, HA, HA...

[He/She can be proven by faith, which is not a scientific test.]

WHAT IS SCIENCE? WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY SCIENTIFIC TEST? DO YOU CONSIDER THE BIG BANG THEORY SCIENTIFIC? HAVE YOU TESTED THE BIG BANG... THE REAL BIG BANG THAT ALLEGEDLY HAPPENED MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO THROUGH YOUR SCIENTIFIC TESTS? HA, HA, HA... THE SCIENTISTS ARE ONLY EXAMINING FEW ROCKS, SOME BONES OF MONKEYS, PICTURES OF GALAXIES FROM HUBBLE TELESCOPES BUT THEY NEVER EVER TESTED AND PROVEN THE 'REAL' BIGBANG THAT THEY CLAIMED TO HAVE HAPPENED MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO. HA, HA, HA...

LOGIC IS A STUDY OF CORRECT THINKING. IT IS A STUDY. IT IS SCIENTIFICALLY TESTED. THE SAME WITH PYSCHOLOGY. THEOLOGY IS A STUDY OF GOD AND OF ALL BEINGS IN RELATION WITH GOD. THE OBJECT OF THE STUDY IS NON MATERIAL BUT THE METHOD OF STUDY IS SCIENTIFIC.

[The Aesop's Fables were written by Aesop;]

WHO TOLD YOU THAT IT WAS WRITTEN BY AESOP? ARE YOU SURE THAT IT WAS REALLY WRITTEN BY AESOP? WHAT ARE YOUR PROOFS THAT THESE WRITINGS ARE GENUINELY WRITTEN BY A PERSON CALLED AESOP AS CLAIMED IN THE BOOKS TODAY? WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THE CLAIMS OF BOOKS AND AUTHORS ABOUT AESOP YET YOU DO NOT GIVE THE SAME TRUST ON THE AUTHORS OF THE BIBLE?

[the Fairy Tales by Hans Christian Andersen;]

THE FAIRY TALES OF HANS CHRISTIAN ANDERSEN ARE WRITTEN AS FICTIONAL STORIES BY PERSONAL ADMISSION OF THE AUTHOR WHOSE EXISTENCE IS NOT FAR FROM OUR CENTURY. DID THE AUTHORS OF THE GOSPELS WRITE A FAIRY TALE BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION?

[the Old Testament by bored scribes in exile in Babylon;]

OOPS... CAN YOU PROVE TO ME SCIENTIFICALLY THAT THOSE SCRIBES WERE BORED? HAVE YOU SEEN THEM? PROOFS PLEASE. I WANT AND I DEMAND SCIENTIFIC PROOFS OF THEIR BOREDOM. WERE THEY FEELING SLEEPY? WERE THEY COMPLAINING? TO WHOM... TO YOU? WERE THEY SNOORING EVERY AFTERNOON... DURING FILIPINO SIESTA TIME?

HOW SURE ARE YOU THAT THEY WERE IN BABYLON? WERE THERE NO TEXTS OF THAT KIND PRIOR TO BABYLONIAN EXILES? ARE YOU SURE? HAVE YOU CHECKED ALL THE HEBREW DOCUMENTS PRIOR TO BABYLONIAN CAPTIVITY? REALLY? DO YOU HAVE SCIENTIFIC RECORDS OF ALL THOSE MANUSCRIPTS AND SCROLLS BY WHICH YOU CAN PROVE TO US THAT THE OLD TESTAMENT BOOKS WERE WRITTEN IN BABYLON? ISN'T IT SUBVERSIVE FOR HEBREWS TO WRITE THOSE THINGS IN BABYLON RIGHT AT THE NOSE OF THEIR BABYLONIAN CONQUERORS?

[and New Testament by the "apostle" Paul and his imaginative scribes.]

WHO ARE THOSE SCRIBES? HOW DID THEY BECOME PAUL'S SCRIBES? WERE THEY UNDER HIS PAYROLL? IS PAUL THEIR HIGH PRIEST FOR HIM TO HAVE A TEAM OF SCRIBES? OR A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL? SCIENTIFIC PROOF PLEASE. HE, HE, HE...

[They are all fictions, but I like the Andersen's Fairy Tales best. :)]

I THINK I PREFER THE ATEO'S FAIRY TALE. IT IS UNPROVEN, UNSCIENTIFIC AND UNFOUNDED. MUCH MORE, THE FAIRY TALES OF ANDERSEN ARE LOGICALLY WRITTEN YOURS IS ILLOGICAL.

July 21, 2010 1:50 PM