NAGHIWALAY BA ANG PAGKADIOS AT PAGKATAO NI CRISTO NUNG SIYA AY NASA LIBINGAN?

The Lord Jesus as The Eternal High Priest and All-Powerful King

Anonymous said...

Dear Father,

Good evening Father, maitanong lang po,totoo po ba na empty daw ang katawan ni Jesus noong nang diyan siya sa libingan with 3 days?ito ay isa namang turo ng isang CFD doon sa Davao City na magpangalang Joe Buanjog,isa rin siyang opisyal ng nasabing organisasyon.

Gumamit pa siya ng dogma, dictionary,correct gramar daw at mga birsikulo ng bibliya.

Father sa totoo lang naguluhan talaga ako,hindi ko maintidahan ang grupong ito,hindi talaga standard ang teaching nila,alam ko matagal na ang isyo na ito ngunit hanggang ngayon walang katapusan ang kanilang pagdibati regarding the Hypostatic Union.

Diba Father ang 2 nature of Jesus ay hindi pwinding magkahiway kahit pa man sa kamatayan niya sa Krus hangang sa libingan? diba ito ang opisyal na turo ng ating simbahan?

Father ayo kuna sa mag post nito ngunit wala akong ibang mapuntahan kung di ikaw lang para maliwanagan po ako.Sana naintindihan mo ang posisyon ko...

Donato.....

July 22, 2010 9:58 PM

Fr. Abe, CRS said...

DEAR BRO. DONATO,

[Good evening Father, maitanong lang po,totoo po ba na empty daw ang katawan ni Jesus noong nang diyan siya sa libingan with 3 days?]

HINDI TUTUO YAN KASI ANG ARAL NA IYAN AY HERESIANG TINURO NG PROTESTANTENG SI JOHN AESPINUS SA KANYANG LECTURES SA MGA PROTESTANT MINISTERS NG HAMBURG NOONG 1544. Please read:

219.Aepinus in Hamburg.

The two outstanding features of Luther's sermon are that Christ descended into hell body and soul, and that He descended as a triumphant Victor, and not in order to complete His suffering and the work of atonement. The denial of these two points, in particular, caused a new controversy, which however, was of brief duration only, and practically confined to the city of Hamburg, hence also called the Hamburg Church Controversy, der Hamburger Kirchenstreit. Its author was JOHN AEPINUS [Huck or Hoeck; born 1499; studied under Luther; persecuted in Brandenburg and banished; rector in Stralsund; 1532 pastor and later superintendent in Hamburg; wrote 1547 against the Interim; sided with Flacius against the Philippists; published books in Latin and Low German; dealt with Christ's descent to hell especially in his Commentary on Psalm 16, of 1544, and in his Explanation of Psalm 68, of 1553; died May 13, 1553].

Aepinus taught that Christ's descent is a part of His suffering and atonement.While the body was Iying in the grave,His soul descended into hell in order to suffer the qualms and pangs required to satisfy the wrath of God, complete the work of redemption, and render a plenary satisfaction, satisfactio plenaria. The descent is the last stage of Christ's humiliation and suffering, His triumph first beginning with the resurrection. Though we know His sufferings in hell to have been most sad and bitter, yet we are unable to say and define what they were in particular, or to describe them concretely, because Scripture is silent on this question.

But while Aepinus originally held that the soul of Christ suffered in hell the punishment of eternal death, he later on distinguished between the first and the second death (eternal damnation) asserting the suffering Christ endured in hell to have been a part of the punishment of the first death, and that He did not suffer the cruciatus AETERNI TARTAREI IGNIS.-Such were the views advocated, developed, and variously modified by Aepinus in his theological lectures and publications. From the Latin "Consummatum est, It is finished," the teaching that Christ finished His suffering and the work of atonement by His death on the cross was stigmatized by Aepinus as "error consummaticus," and its advocates as "Consummatists," while these, in turn, dubbed Aepinus and his adherents "Infernalists." (Frank 3, 440.)

Cf. http://www.bookofconcord.org/historical-19.php

ITO AY TAHASANG KINONTRA KAHIT NA NG IBA PANG MGA PROTESTANTS TULAD NILA LUTHER AT CALVIN AT IBA PA. SUBALIT ANG MGA PROTESTANTS AY HINDI NAGKAKAISA HINGGIL SA ISSUE NA ITO NOONG 16TH CENTURY.

SA KABALANG DAKO ANG IGLESIA CATOLICA AY DIRECTA, SPECIFICO AT TAHASANG KINONDINA AT DINEKLARANG MALI ANG ARAL NA IYAN:

"When, therefore, we say that Jesus died, we mean that His soul was disunited from His Body. WE DO NOT ADMIT, however, THAT THE DIVINITY WAS SEPARATED FROM HIS BODY. On the contrary, WE FIRMLY BELIEVE AND PROFESS that when His soul was dissocitated from His body, HIS DIVINITY CONTINUED ALWAYS UNITED BOTH TO HIS BODY IN THE SEPULCHRE and TO HIS SOUL IN LIMBO."

(from THE CATECHISM OF THE COUNCIL OF TRENT, Art. IV, Part 2 'Christ Really Died'. Roman Catechism issued by Pope St. Pius V, trans. into English with notes by John A. McHugh, O.P. and Charles J. Callan, O.P. [both Masters in Sacred Theology & Doctors of Literature], TAN BOOKS AND PUBLISHERS, INC., Rockford, Illinois 1982, page 55. Highlights by capitalization are mine.)

BAKIT ITO NI-REJECT NG COUNCIL OF TRENT AT NI POPE ST. PIUS V? KASI ANG HERESIAN IYAN AY SUMASALUNGAT SA DOGMA NG HYPOSTATIC UNION O NG ESSENTIAL NA PAGKAKAISA NG PAGKADIOS AT PAGKATAO NG PANGINOONG JESU-CRISTO NA HINDI MAAARING PAGHIWALAYIN KELANMAN:

We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach people to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; (ἐν δύο φύσεσιν ἀσυγχύτως, ἀτρέπτως, ἀδιαιρέτως, ἀχωρίστως - in duabus naturis inconfuse, immutabiliter, indivise, inseparabiliter) the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person (prosopon) and one Subsistence (hypostasis), not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.

(The Chalcedonian Deefinition. Agreed at the Fourth Ecumenical Council at Chalcedon in 451. Cf. The Church Teaches, Documents of the Church in English Translations, By Jesuit Fathers of St. Mary's College. TAN BOOKS AND PUBLISHERS, INC. Rockford, Illinois 1973. Page 172.)

Tignan mong mabuti ang characteristics of the union: Inconfusedly, Unchangeably, Indivisibly, Inseparably. In other translations as written in the book I cited above it is rendered: No confusion, no change, no division and NO SEPARATION.

Walang panahon mula ng mag-Incarnate ang Logos na naghiwalay ang Divinity at Humanity ni Jesus. Kahit sa Cross... kahit sa Tomb. ANG NAGHIWALAY NUNG MAMATAY SI JESUS AY ANG KANYANG KATAWAN AT KALULUWA. Kaya Soul lang ni Jesus ang bumaba sa Hell kasi ang Katawan ay naiwan sa Tomb subalit that Soul is God. Ang Katawan ni Cristo sa Libangan ay walang kaluluwa subalit taglay pa rin niya ang Kanyang Pagka-Dios. Kaya, tama ang term na ginamit din ng mga Councils at mga Church FAthers and Catechisms: GOD DIED! He died not as regards Divinity but as regards His Humanity.

[ito ay isa namang turo ng isang CFD doon sa Davao City na magpangalang Joe Buanjog,isa rin siyang opisyal ng nasabing organisasyon.]

O GOOD LORD. BAKA MAGALIT SA AKIN YAN HA. HE, HE, HE... I AM NOT ATTACKING ANY PERSON HERE ESPECIALLY OUR COMRADES IN APOLOGETICS. BUT AS I EXPLAINED, MY POSITION IS CLEARLY, SPECIFICALLY, AND DIRECTLY AND WORD FOR WORD STATED BY POPE ST. PIUS V AND THE ROMAN CATECHISM WHICH IS THE FIRST EVER UNIVERSAL CATECHISM IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. THE CCC NOW IS ONLY THE SECOND.

[Gumamit pa siya ng dogma, dictionary,correct gramar daw at mga birsikulo ng bibliya.]

WALANG DOGMA NA NAGSASAAD NA NAGHIWALAY ANG DIVINITY AT HUMANITY NI JESUS WHEN HE DIED. WALA DIN YAN SA BIBLIA. SIGURADO AKO DYAN KASI DOGMATIC THEOLOGY ANG MASTERS KO.

[Father sa totoo lang naguluhan talaga ako,hindi ko maintidahan ang grupong ito,hindi talaga standard ang teaching nila,alam ko matagal na ang isyo na ito ngunit hanggang ngayon walang katapusan ang kanilang pagdibati regarding the Hypostatic Union.]

WALANG MASAMA SA DEBATE. KAHIT TAYONG MGA CATOLICO AY PWEDENG MAGDEBATE HINGGIL SA KUNG ANO ANG TAMANG PALIWANAG NG ATING NAG-IISANG PANANAMPALATAYA. HINDI LAHAT NG CFD AY NAG-ARAL NG THEOLOGY. YUNG IBA AY SELF STUDY LAMANG. KAYA DAHIL DITO MERONG NAGPIPILIT NG PERSONAL INTERPRETATIONS NILA. SUBALIT TAPAT SA PANANAMPALATAYA ANG CFD-DAVAO AT CEBU AS A GROUP.

ANG PAGKAKAIBA LANG AY SA INTERPRETASYON NG DOGMA. KAMING MGA PARI HINDI BASTA-BASTA NAG-AAKUSA NG HERESY. TINITIGNAN DIN NATIN ANG KAKAYAHAN, LIMITASYON AT ANG INTENTION NG BAWAT TAO. HINDI NAMAN TAYO PERFECTO. ANG MAHALAGA ANG MGA CFD AY NAGSUSUMIKAP NA PAG-ARALAN ANG MGA DOGMA NG SIMBAHAN KAHIT SILA AY MGA LAY. THAT'S POSITIVE. KUNG MAGKAMALI, E DI I-TATAMA NAMIN. BUT LET US NOT CONDEMN. LET US LOVE OUR APOLOGISTS.

[Diba Father ang 2 nature of Jesus ay hindi pwinding magkahiway kahit pa man sa kamatayan niya sa Krus hangang sa libingan? diba ito ang opisyal na turo ng ating simbahan?]

YES. NAIPAKITA KO NA SA TAAS. YAN ANG TURO NG COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON AT NI POPE ST. LEO THE GREAT.

[Father ayo kuna sa mag post nito ngunit wala akong ibang mapuntahan kung di ikaw lang para maliwanagan po ako.Sana naintindihan mo ang posisyon ko...

Donato.....]

NAIINTINDIHAN KITA DONATO. SANA MAINTINDIHAN MO RIN ANG MGA CFD. MARAMI SILANG TINUTURONG TAMA AT GINAGAWANG MABUTI SA SIMBAHAN. KUNG MAGKAMALI MAN SA ISANG BAGAY AY UNAWAIN NATIN AT TULUNGAN.

GOD BLESS YOU ALWAYS. GOD BLESS CFD!

July 23, 2010 10:14 PM