ABA, “GINOONG” MARIA!
MARWIL N. LLASOS, OP
Mr. Ben Douglas, an American Catholic apologist emailed me sometime in 2006 asking for some information about Mr. Eliseo Soriano of Ang Dating Daan. At that time, Ben Douglas was preparing an article on Soriano and his Ang Dating Daan. Among others, Mr. Douglas wanted to refute Soriano’s accusation that the Tagalog version of “Hail Mary” (“Aba Ginoong Maria”) is erroneous. Being an American, Mr. Douglas is not very much conversant on Tagalog. Hence, he requested me to provide him some information about the language, specifically about the Aba Ginoong Maria translation.
Mr. Douglas wanted to react to Soriano’s tirades against Filipino Catholics for praying the Aba Ginoong Maria. In a Bible exposition, Soriano, froth in the mouth, lamented: “If you were a woman, how would you feel about being addressed as Ginoo? (mister)? Wasn’t she the wife of Joseph? Why don’t you call her Ginang Maria instead?” (http://www.angdatingdaan.org/biblicaltopics/bib_expo_1_pf.htm).
To help a fellow Catholic apologist, I replied to Mr. Douglas’s email on April 26, 2006 explaining that in classical Tagalog, both “ginoo” and “maginoo” were applied to both men and women. Mr. Ben Douglas prepared a well argued article debunking Soriano. (http://www.personal.psu.edu/bmd175/ang.htm). The article caused quite a stir – and stung Soriano’s fanatics. In retaliation, they bombarded Mr. Douglas with ad hominem attacks. What else can we expect from Soriano’s minions? Like leader, like member.
Mr. Ben Douglas asked my permission to quote my email which I readily gave. I also wrote an article on Aba Ginoong Maria which I published in my blog (http://marwil-n-llasos.blogspot.com/2008/09/aba-ginoong-maria.html; see also: http://bromarwilnllasos.blogspot.com/2008/11/aba-ginoong-maria-aba-po-santa-mariang.html). Unfortunately, Mr. Douglas could not understand Tagalog so he had no opportunity to consult or quote my articles.
In a forum hosted by Ang Dating Daan (ADD) followers, Yirmeyah.Net, a Soriano fanatic whose pseudonym is YirmeYah echoed his master’s attack on Filipino Catholics’ use of “ginoo” in the Tagalog translation of the Ave Maria. He quoted his idol’s diatribes and pitted it against the defense of Mr. Ben Douglas. YirmeYah, the host or moderator the forum, checked Mr. Douglas’ reference and found out that it was my email! The moderator then posed the following questions: “Talaga bang ang "ginoo" at maginoo" noong una ay ginagamit pareho sa lalake at babae? Mayroon ba kayong alam na reference na magpapatunay nito? Nagkamali ba si Bro. Eli sa pagpuna nyang ito?” (http://yirmeyah.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=661&start=0).
Gauging from the questions posed by the moderator, he is obviously a Soriano adorer who believes that his idol could never go wrong. In this issue, Soriano has never been more wrong.
As expected, Soriano’s ilk rushed to his defense. One Soriano defender admitted that although he had not yet researched on the topic, he was nevertheless so sure that Soriano already researched it before he made his tirade on the Aba, Ginoong Maria. He said: “Di ko pa nareresearch bro, pero sure ako bago pumuna si Bro.Eli naresearch na niya yang maigi.” Talk about blind faith. A clear case of the blind leading the blind.
Although Soriano’s follower had not proven the case of his master because he admittedly did not research on the topic, he turned the tables and attacked me instead: “Palusot na lang yan palagay ko ng Marwil na yan.. Well, let’s see kung saan aabot ang tutol niyang yan.” We expect this brand of argumentation often from ADD members. What else is new?
Another ADD member, far from going to the library and making a little research, justified Soriano saying, “Wala siyang kailangang iresearch kasi ang sagot niya ay face value. Ang katwiran niya ay "ginoo" ay para sa lalake at "ginang" ay para sa babae (or "binibini" kung dalaga) which is understandable dahil iyon ang gamit sa balarila hindi ba? Wala siyang kailangang iresearch. He is simply questioning the claim ng gamit ng "ginoo." Then again, he trained his guns on me and called be biased because according to him I am a Catholic apologist and not a Filipino apologist as Ben Douglas called me. Excuse me? That’s neither here nor there.
He then concluded that my email to Mr. Ben Douglas was a weak reference. He demanded to see the “ultimate source” which served as the basis of my email; otherwise, according to him, my refutation would be incompetent. Why didn’t the ADD member research it for himself? His answer? There was no need to research it because Soriano’s answer should be taken at face value. Soriano’s word is Gospel truth. Thus saith the Lord!
Unknown to Soriano’s cohorts, I made a thorough investigation on this issue and published the result in my blog (see above).
Thankfully, a Filipino Catholic apologist (“mongladz”) who I know personally and rushed to my defense (because I don’t participate in discussion groups) and cited an online Tagalog dictionary defining “ginoo” as “a respectful form of address, esp. in conversation: po, ho.” (http://www.tagalog-dictionary.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?s=ginoo). In addition, he referred to a secular site to prove our case. In the Wikipedia, it categorically states: “Kung mapapansin ang "Ave Maria" sa Tagalog ay tumukoy sa "Ginoo" imbes na "Ginang o Binibini" ito ay dahil sa Lumang Tagalog, ang mga "kalalakihan" ay may "mataas" na pagkilala kumpara sa kababaihan. Ipinilit na gamitin ang "mataas na pagkilalang ito" sa kalagayan at katauhan ni Maria, na ayon sa Romano Katoliko ay Ina ng Diyos.” (http://tl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aba_Ginoong_Maria).
That should have ended ended the controversy. Mongladz challenged Soriano’s defenders: “But then, it’s easy to demand credibility but guys where are your sources disproving the justifiable use of the word? Show one please.” ADD members miserably failed to show any. Instead, they dismissed Wikipedia and argued that it “cannot be used as a strong source.” A Soriano defender went as far as claiming ignorance of classical Tagalog and shifted gears by saying that “this issue is miniscule and it’s no point (sic) discussing archaic history.” He conveniently forgot that it was they (ADD) who started the thread.
The ADD defender was forced to accept that “the use of "ginoo" is reasonable.” However, he pressed for “stronger sources such as posting a journal from the 1800s or something.” This is pathetic argumentation. They couldn’t debunk the Catholic position, yet ADD apologists demand for more proof! It’s like the vanquished dictating the terms of surrender to the victor. As the Catholic apologist in the forum rightly asked, “how about something to disprove the actual use of the word? Or is it just better to rely on the personal notion than that of a not so strong source?”
As usual, and as expected, Soriano’s boys miserably failed the task. To wiggle away from the mess they thrust themselves in, they tried to switch to another topic – to that of praying to Mary. Catholic apologists wouldn’t fall for that trap. It would take another thread for that.
After at least accepting hypothetically the use of “ginoo” for women in classical Tagalog, Soriano’s defenders raised another argument, “if ginoo cannot be used for women/females anymore, why do the modern Catholics still use it? Why not change the word? This just means that this prayer is being spoken out loud, meditated upon, without being really understood by those praying.” How arrogant of them to assume that Catholics don’t understand what they are praying! And why should we change the words? To suit those who are opposed to it? Thanks, but no thanks.
There’s no need to change the wording of Aba Ginoong Maria as there is no need to bring coal to Newcastle. When aint broke, don’t fix it. Even if we amend the Aba Ginoong Maria to placate anti-Catholics, would they stop attacking our Marian devotion?
The Aba Ginoong Maria is part of classical religious literature. There’s certainly no need to update it. Would King James-only Protestants ever wish to change the archaic words in the King James Version? I don’t think so. Should we modernize the language of Shakespeare? Definitely not. The same holds true for the Aba Ginoong Maria as it has already been part of the unique Tagalog heritage, language and culture long before the advent of Protestants and fundamentalists in our land.
Going back to the request for references from the 1800’s, I already pointed out in my blog that our National Hero, Dr. Jose P. Rizal, mentioned in his letter Sa Mga Kababayang Dalaga ng Malolos: "Pukawin ninyo ang sigla at sipag, maginoong asal, mahal na pakiramdam at huag isuko ang pagkadalaga sa isang mahina at kuyuming puso” [Jose P. Rizal, Sa Mga Kababayang Dalaga ng Malolos, Nilo S. Ocampo, ed., Si Rizal at ang Wikang Tagalog (Quezon City: UP Press, 2002) 526]. I argued, “Malinaw na para sa pambansang bayani, ang maginoong asal ay hindi lamang para sa mga lalaki bagkus ay marapat din para sa mga babae. Sa madaling sabi, ang mga babae ay dapat na mga maginoo rin. Ang sulat ni Dr. Jose Rizal sa mga dalaga ng Malolos, Bulacan ay hindi lingid sa kaalaman ng mga mag-aaral sa mataas na paaralan at kolehiyo sapagkat ito ay isinasama sa mga babasahing itinatakda ng mga guro sa asignaturang Ang Buhay, mga Gawa at mga Sinulat ni Rizal na bahagi ng kurikulum sa ating mga paaralan. Lumalabas na ang tunay na kahulugan ng ‘Ginoo’ ay marangal o ikinararangal, maging lalaki man o babae.”
Because unscholarly, Soriano and the members of his church missed that. Remember what the Ang Dating Daan member said? “I had not yet researched it yet, but I'm sure that before Bro. Eli refutes he researched it well. It is an alibi maybe by Marwil.”
Dream on. Eliseo Soriano did no research. Neither did his minions. And who is making an alibi here? Surely not me.
It is by now obvious that before Soriano opened his mouth, he did not check his facts first. This recklessness and irresponsibility deprived him of credibility. Soriano is clearly not concerned with accuracy; he is simply not after the truth. Because if he is, it surely wouldn’t hurt if he would do a little research. It’s easy indeed to unmask a charlatan by merely pointing at the facts. Against facts, no argument is valid.
In Panganiban’s Diksyonario Tesauro Pilipino-Ingles, it is stated in p. 443 –
“Note: Noceda & Sanlucar report in 1860 that ginoo referred to ‘a lady in rank,’ while maginoo was ‘gentleman of rank.’ The Tg. Version of Ave Maria (Hail, Mary!) starts with Aba, Ginoong Maria. But today both ginoo and maginoo are masculine.”
Our point precisely! But Eliseo Soriano, the much touted “wise man” (“pantas”) missed that fact – because he did not research at all!
In Yirmeyah.Net, Filipino Catholic (an apologist from Davao) finally posted my article “ABA, GINOONG MARIA! ABA PO, SANTA MARIANG HARI!” in the forum. That to settle the matter and put the issue at rest. Filipino Catholic concluded, “Is it permissible to call a lady “GINOO”? We already proved na pwede. Even Dr. Jose Rizal called the ladies of Malolos as GINOO. … So … do you agree na pwedeng tawaging GINOO ang babae? Will that "somebody" apologize for calling Bro. Marwil "INCOMPETENT?” (http://yirmeyah.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=661&start=30).
No one apologized. This must be the way ADD members are taught by their leader.
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what is justification by faith?,according to the catholic opinion (I am a born-again christian)
ReplyDeleteBro, Marwil,
ReplyDeleteKeep it up to defend our devotion to Blessed Virgin Mary and the Rosary.
I'm so glad that you personally know MONGLADZ. We've been together in one of the FORUMS in the internet refuting the SOLA SCRIPTURA believers.
I salute him (Mongladz) for he had shown great defense in favor of our Mother Church.
Your blog and this blog of Fr.Abe are not only useful but helpful as well to all filipino catholics who are searching for truth.
God bless you bro!
Thank you for your kind words Bro. Milesawayman. Glad to know that you are a Catholic Apologist too. Let us praise the Lord for using Bro. Mars' Blog and this one as instruments of the Holy Spirit to strengthen the faith of the people.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your own answers in defense of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I will post it in the main wall also to add to the main body of apologetic materials in this Blog. We need to help each other as Apologists. And I am truly very grateful that Bro. Mars is such a big helping hand despite is very heavy schedule. The mind of that guy is very very amazing.
GOD BLESS YOU.
Dear Anonymous,
ReplyDeletePlease visit our JUSTIFICATION, SOLA FIDE, FAITH ALONE topics. You can find them at the right side of this Blog under TOPICS LABEL.
Dear Bro. Marwil,
ReplyDeleteDarating nalang ang Panginoong Hesus, hindi na masasagot yan ng ADD yan. Wala namang substance yung argumento nila eh! Nagpaputok nga, wala namang pulbura! To borrow the expression of Atty. Bacalso,"PALTIK YANG RELIHIYONG IYAN!" Kita mo, hindi man lang nila pinansin ang ebidensiyang binigay mo, yan ang tinatawag na EVADING THE ISSUE. Saan na yung akusa ni Soriano na kaya daw tiniwalag si Galileo sa Iglesia Katolika eh dahil sa turo niyang BILOG ANG MUNDO instead na FLAT. Nangaakusa pa na hindi daw nagbabasa ang mga leader ng Simabahang Katoliko ng Bibliya at sabay banggit:
Isa 40:22 KJVR It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Saan na ang maling akusasyon ni Soriano about sa topic na ito?? Bakit ba hindi na nila piniplay sa kanilang programa?? Did we receive an apology? NONE! Is Soriano not only INFALLIBLE, BUT ALSO IMPECCABLE??
Tanong ko lang sa ADD, may marunong pa kayang makipagdebate ng FORMAL sa inyo maliban kang Soriano? Eh yung mga Apostoles nakikipagdebate eh, hindi lang ang ating Panginoon na siyang Pinuno. Sa nabasa ko sa blog ni Bro. Willie Santiago, na sa tingin ko mas karapat dapat na maging leader ng ADD, mas alam ang bibliya, at mas competent kang Bro. Daniel Razon at sa ibang miyembro ng ADD, mukha atang hindi ganoon kabihasa sa bibliya at debate si Daniel Razon ah.
Sana labanan niyo ng FORMAL ang mga na tagapagtanggol ng Santa Iglesia Katolika kagaya ni Bro. Marwil. Maawa naman kayo sa leader niyo. Eh kung yung ibang mga gawain gaya ng pagtuturo at pagdodoctrina, naisasagawa ng mga workers niyo, bakit hindi ang debate?
Kudos to Bro. Marwil Llasos for Defending the Mother of our God! May the grace of Christ, through the intercession of our Mother, be with you always! Amen.
Thank you very much for your kind words and encouragement.
ReplyDeleteDear Milesawayman:
ReplyDeleteThank you for your message. Yes, I know Mongladz. He is in fact a revert to the Catholic Church. He was a born again pastor. He is now head over heels in love with Holy Mother Church. Please pray for all defenders of the Catholic Faith.
Talaga, former Pastor pala ng Born Again si Bro. Mongladz. He, he, he...
ReplyDeleteYes, Father. Nung pastor pa siya eh hindi niya napalayas ang demonio doon sa nasaniban na pina-cast out sa kanya. Ayun, nasampal pa siya ng sinapian. Ha ha ha. Eh kumuha ng tubig iyong isang Catoliko at pinainom sa sinapian. Ayun, lumayas ang demonio. Nagtanong si pastor kung bakit lumayas ang demonio matapos painumin ng tubig ang nasapian. Sabi nung Catoliko na nagpainom, ordinario lang daw na tubig iyon. Galing sa LOURDES.
ReplyDeleteHA, HA, HA... KAYA PALA. HA, HA, HA... VIVA LA VIRGEN.
ReplyDeleteBakit ang dasal sa katoliko laging inuulit... tulad ng Ama namin, Aba Ginoong Maria, etc... tulad ng pagdadasal ng bhudism, slam, at iba pang hindi maka-Kristiyanong relihiyon... Hindi marunong makinig ang Diyos?
ReplyDeleteKUNG DIOS ANG PAGBABASEHAN E HINDI NA NGA KAILANGANG MAGDASAL DAHIL ALAM NA NIYA ANG LAHAT. ANG DASAL AY PARA SA TAO UPANG HIGIT SIYANG MAPALAPIT SA DIOS.
ReplyDeleteANG MGA DASAL NA OUR FATHER, HAIL MARY, GLORY BE AT IBA PA AY BIBLICAL PRAYERS. WE ARE USING THEM NOT ONLY FOR OUR PRESENTATION OF REQUESTS BUT ALSO FOR OUR MEDITATIONS AND REFLECTIONS. WHEN YOU ARE MEDITATING AND REFLECTING YOU NEED CONTINUOUS FOCUS ON THE WORDS AND CONTENT OF THE PASSAGE OR OF THE BIBLICAL TEXTS FOR GREATER UNDERSTANDING AND COMPREHENSION OF THE TRUTH THAT THEY CONTAIN. THUS WE NEED TO CONTINUOUSLY PRONOUNCE, HEAR AND SAVOR THEIR MEANING.
ANG IBANG MGA RELIHIYON KUNWARI AY HINDI NAGDADASAL NG PAULIT-ULIT. ANG MGA BORN AGAIN AY PAULIT ULIT ANG 'AMEN' AT 'ALLELUIA'. ANG MGA MANOLISTA AY PAULIT ULIT ANG 'OPO' 'SIYANGA PO' 'HINDI NA PO'. HE, HE, HE...
HINDI LAHAT NG PAULIT ULIT AY PINAGBABAWAL. YUN LAMANG 'WALANG KABULUHANG PAULIT-ULIT.
ANG NANGYAYARI PO NGAYON AY KATUPARAN NG SINABI NG DIYOS SA AHAS (ALAM NA NG LAHAT KUNG SINO ANG AHAS NA TINUTUKOY) NA, “I WILL PUT ENMITY BETWEEN YOU AND THE WOMAN, BETWEEN YOUR SEED AND HER SEED…” (GENESIS 3; 15) KAYA NGAYON NAG AALITAN ANG ANAK NG AHAS AT ANAK NG BABAE. ITO’Y MAISIP SANA NG MGA AYAW TUMANGGAP SA BABAE SA PAANAN NG KRUS NOONG SABIHIN NG PANGINOONG JESUS, “WOMAN, BEHOLD, THY SON,’’ THEN HE SAID TO THE DISCIPLE, “BEHOLD THY MOTHER,” (JN. 19; 26-27)
ReplyDeleteKAYA KUNG AKO’Y TUMANGGAP SA BABAE NA AKING INA BILANG PAGTULAD SA DISCIPLE SA PAANAN KRUS. ANONG PAKIALAM NG MGA IBA NA SA AKING PAGIISIP AY SILA’Y ANAK NG AHAS. KAYA PARA SA MATAGAL KO NANG PAGTATANGGOL SA BABAE NA HALOS APAT NG DECADA AY GANOON AT GANOON PA RIN ANG KANILANG SINASABI KAYA IPAGPATAWAD NG MGA KINUUKULAN NA TALAGANG NAKASULAT NA MAY ANAK ANG AHAS AT MAY ANAK ANG BABAE NG MAGAALITAN DAHIL KUNG HINDI MAGKAKAGANOON AY HINDI MATUTUPAD ANG SALITA NG DIYOS. MARAMI PONG SALAMAT SA LAHAT.
VIVAT JESUS, BRO BUUDY LUNA
VIVA JESUS, BRO. BUDDY LUNA.
ReplyDelete