His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI looks lovingly at the representative of the Universal Church gathered in St. Peter's Square.
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While the Rome-Society of St Pius X discussions are, by accounts from both sides, running into a doctrinal brick wall, together with a rumour from Rome spell danger for traditionalist Catholics. That danger is a political deal which would simply go round the side of the doctrinal blockage. Politics threaten to circumvent doctrine.
a few months ago a large proportion of Catholics attending SSPX Mass centres are hoping and waiting for some agreement to come out of the discussions. If - repeat, if -- this is true, it is very serious. Such Catholics may get full marks for wishing not to be cut off from what appears to be Rome, but they get low marks for not grasping that as long as the discussions remain doctrinal, there is no way in which the neo-modernist teaching of Vatican II can be reconciled with the Catholic doctrine of the true Church. Such Catholics may venerate and love Archbishop Lefebvre . They had best wake up if they are not in one way or another to fall into the arms of the neo-modernist Romans.especially to BASTARDS like you hehehe...
Agreement in front of doctrine means politics before religion, unity before truth, man before God. God before man means truth before unity, religion before politics and doctrine being more important than any non-doctrinal agreement. Only dreamers could not foresee the Rome-SSPX discussions running into a doctrinal brick wall. Only politicians can wish for any non-doctrinal agreement to come out of them.
Alas, to all appearances Benedict XVI sincerely believes in the Newchurch of Vatican II which is to unite in its bosom all men absolutely, regardless of whether they believe or not in the one true doctrine of the Faith. Therefore he sincerely wishes to gather in the SSPX as well - and he does not normally have too much longer to live ! So the blockage of doctrinal discussions should not unduly worry him. He must be looking to cut a political deal with the SSPX, in order to unite it with the rest of the Newchurch. It follows that he must ask of the SSPX neither too much, or it would refuse the deal, nor too little, because then the rest of the Newchurch would rise up in protest.
The rumour from Rome is precisely that he is thinking of a "Motu Proprio" which would accept the SSPX "back into the Church" once and for all, yet require from the SSPX no explicit acceptance of Vatican II or the New Mass, but only, for instance, the acceptance of John-Paul II's 1992 "Catechism of the Catholic Church", which is substantially modernist but in a quiet way. Thus the SSPX would not appear to its followers to be accepting the Council or the New Mass, yet it would be softly, softly, beginning to go along with the substance of neo-modernism.
Kyrie eleison.
- Fr. Abe, CRS said...
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[While the Rome-Society of St Pius X discussions are, by accounts from both sides, running into a doctrinal brick wall, together with a rumour from Rome spell danger for traditionalist Catholics.]
THE SSPX DIDN'T RUN INTO A BRICK WALL. IT SIMPLY BANGED ITS HEAD ON A ROCK CALLED 'PETROS'. LUCIFER AND LEFEBVRE COMBINED WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DESTROY THIS ROCK.
[That danger is a political deal which would simply go round the side of the doctrinal blockage. Politics threaten to circumvent doctrine.]
WE ARE NOT AFTER POLITICAL DEAL WITH ANYONE MUCH MORE WITH SSPX. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH CONFRONTED AND FOUGHT WITH KINGS AND THE POWERS OF THIS WORLD AND IT NEVER CAPITULATE. NOT WITH THE PAGAN ROME OF NERO, NOT WITH NAPOLEON, NOT WITH ELIZABETH 1 OF ENGLAND, NOT WITH THE TSARS OF RUSSIA, NOT WITH THE SOVIETS AND ESPECIALLY NOT WITH THE SSPX BASTARDS. He, he, he...
[a few months ago a large proportion of Catholics attending SSPX Mass centres are hoping and waiting for some agreement to come out of the discussions.]
LARGE? I THINK YOU ARE BLIND SO THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IS LARGE AND WHAT IS MEDIUM AND WHAT IS SMALL. HA, HA, HA... WHEN WE TALK OF LARGE FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HERE IN THE PHILIPPINES IT IS THE GATHERING OF MININUM 2 MILLION BAPTIZED CATHOLIC IN THE LUNETA GRANDSTAND IN A NOVUS ORDO MASS. NOT IN YOUR HYPOCRITICAL, BORING MASS FULL OF EXPENSIVE CLOTHES JUST TO COVER YOUR SCHISMS AND HERESIES. YOUR PRIESTS ARE LIKE DEMONS PRETENDING TO BE ANGELS OF LIGHT. HA, HA, HA...
[If - repeat, if -- this is true, it is very serious.]
HA, HA, HA... AS FAR AS WE ARE CONCERNED MORE AND MORE OF SSPX PRIESTS AND FOLLOWERS ARE RETURNING TO THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AFTER SEEING THE HYPOCRISY INSIDE THE SSPX. THEY COULD FEEL THE EMPTINESS OF SUCH A POPELESS SOCIETY.
THEIR LARGEST MASS I THINK WILL BE VERY HAPPY TO GATHER AROUND 200 PEOPLE. HA, HA, HA... SOME OF THEM ARE SIMPLY DECEIVED THAT THEY ARE GOING TO A ROMAN CATHOLIC MASS. HA, HA, HA...
[Such Catholics may get full marks for wishing not to be cut off from what appears to be Rome, but they get low marks for not grasping that as long as the discussions remain doctrinal, there is no way in which the neo-modernist teaching of Vatican II can be reconciled with the Catholic doctrine of the true Church.]
THERE IS ONLY ONE ROME AND THAT ROME IS THE TRUE ROME. WHAT APPEARS TO BE ROMAN ARE THE ILLICIT PRIESTS OF THE SSPX WHO ARE FAKES AND LITURGICAL BASTARDS. SONS OF THE WACKY OLD FOOL NAMED LEFEBVRE.
[Such Catholics may venerate and love Archbishop Lefebvre .]
THE TOMB OF JOHN PAUL THE GREAT IS VISITED BY ABOUT 20,000 PEOPLE A DAY AND THOUSANDS ALSO VISIT THAT OF BLESSED JOHN XXIII BUT THE TOMB OF LEFEBVRE IS A GARBAGE IN COMPARISON. SURELY, THE CALL OF SANTO SUBITO IS UNIVERSAL FOR JOHN PAUL II AND SILENT FOR THE WACKY OLD FOOL, LEFEBVRE.
[They had best wake up if they are not in one way or another to fall into the arms of the neo-modernist Romans.especially to BASTARDS like you hehehe...]
HA, HA, HA... WE ARE AWAKE AND SINCE WE ARE AWAKE WE WILL NOT JOIN ANIMALS LIKE YOU. YOU CAN JOIN LEFEBVRE IN HELL WHEN YOU AND YOUR MEMBERS PASS AWAY BUT WE ARE NOT FOOLS TO JOIN IN YOUR MADNESS.
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[Agreement in front of doctrine means politics before religion,]
WELL IF THAT IS THE CASE THEN THE FACT THAT THE SSPX APOINTED A REPRESENTATIVE IN THE DIALOGUE WITH THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS A PROOF OF YOUR DOCTRINAL HYPOCRISY AND POLITICAL STRATEGY. IT IS ALSO VERY STRIKING THAT BERNARD FELLAY CALLS OUR POPE 'HOLY FATHER'. HA, HA, HA... BY YOUR STANDARD YOUR SSPX AND YOUR LEADERSHIP ARE COMMITTING POLITICAL MOCKERY OF YOUR OWN POSITION.
[unity before truth, man before God.]
NICE WORDS BUT THE DEPOSIT OF FAITH, THE BODY OF TRUTH HANDED ON BY CHRIST IS ENTRUSTED TO PETER AND NOT TO LEFEBVRE, YOUR WACKY OLD FOOL. THUS, WE PARAPHRASE THE WORDS OF ST. THOMAS MORE, "WE MAY BE LOYAL TO THE ARCHBISHOP BUT GOD FIRST!"
WE HAVE CHOSE THE OFFICIAL REPRESENTATIVE OF GOD OVER A WACKY OLD FOOL.
[God before man means truth before unity,]
THE TRUTH OF FAITH IS IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND NOT IN THE SOCIETY OF THE POPELESS WHERE YOU BELONG. HE, HE, HE...
[religion before politics]
YOUR WILLIAMSON IS A STUPID POLITICIAN WHILE YOUR GALARRETA IS A SERPENTINE POLITICIAN. HA, HA, HA... IMAGINE, SPEAKING OF OIL AND WATER. HA, HA, HA...
[and doctrine being more important than any non-doctrinal agreement.]
WE DOT WISH TO HAVE ANY NON-DOCTRINAL AGREEMENT WITH YOU. WE CAN LIVE WITHOUT YOU BUT YOU CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT US. YOU ARE PARASITES WHO ARE SUCKING BLOOD FROM US WHILE ATTACKING YOUR OWN SOURCE OF LIVING.
[Only dreamers could not foresee the Rome-SSPX discussions running into a doctrinal brick wall.]
IT IS FORESEEN. HOWEVER, OUR POPES ARE VISIONARIES WHILE YOUR LEADERS ARE VENOMOUS POLITICIANS. ONE TIME THEY ATTACK AND ONE TIME THEY PLEAD MERCY. ONCE MERCY IS GIVEN THEN THEY ATTACK. HA, HA, HA... YOU EASILY LEARNED THE ART OF DIPLOMACY AND POLITICS.
[ Only politicians can wish for any non-doctrinal agreement to come out of them.]
THANK GOD WE DO NOT WISH ANYTHING FROM YOU.
[Alas, to all appearances Benedict XVI sincerely believes in the Newchurch of Vatican II]
THE CHURCH OF BENEDICT XVI IS NOT NEW BUT OLD. IN FACT, HE ADVOCATES THE THEOLOGY OF RETURN TO THE SOURCES SUCH AS THE PATRISTIC STUDIES. UNLIKE YOUR WACKY OLD FOOL WHOSE CONCEPT OF THE CHURCH IS ONLY FROM 16TH CENTURY.
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[which is to unite in its bosom all men absolutely, regardless of whether they believe or not in the one true doctrine of the Faith.]
HA, HA, HA... THIS IS THE MOST STUPID ARGUMENT I'VE EVER HEARD FROM AN SSPX. HA, HA, HA...
DEFINITELY THE POPE DO NOT ACCEPT ALL MEN INTO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WITHOUT BELIEVING THE ONE TRUE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH. HA, HA, HA... THE MOSLEMS AND THE PROTESTANTS AND THE ANGLICANS BECOMING ROMAN CATHOLICS ARE BEING GIVEN THOROUGH CATICHESIS AND ARE BEING BAPTIZED INTO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
THE SSPX IS USELESS AND STERILE IN BRINGING PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITH INTO THE CATHOLIC FOLD. LIKE LUCIFER... LEFEBVRE IS ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT HIS REBELLION BUT NOT ON CONVERTING SOULS TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
THOSE WHO ARE CONVERTING THROUGH APOLOGETIC WORKS THE CULT MEMBERS HERE IN THE PHILIPPINES AND IN THE UNITED STATES ARE THE CATHOLIC APOLOGISTS BELONGING TO THE VATICAN II FAITHFUL.
[Therefore he sincerely wishes to gather in the SSPX as well - and he does not normally have too much longer to live !]
HA, HA, HA... WHEN THE POPE DIES ANOTHER POPE WILL LIVE. AND THAT POPE WILL NOT BE IN NEED OF SSPX TO REALIZE HIS PASTORAL PLAN FOR THE CHURCH. THE SSPX IS ALREADY LIKE A ROTTEN CORPSE . MORE AND MORE CATHOLICS ARE COMING OUT IN THE OPEN TO DENOUNCE ITS EVIL AND HYPOCRISY.
[So the blockage of doctrinal discussions should not unduly worry him.]
THE POPE IS NOT WORRY OF ANYONE OR ANYTHING ELSE. MUCH MORE THE SSPX. HIS VIRTUE OF HOPE IS TOO STRONG THAT THE ENEMIES OF THE FAITH ARE BEING SURPRISED BY HIS STEADFAST SPIRIT. THE MORE HE GETS OLD THE MORE HIS WISDOM SHINES. UNLIKE LEFEBVFRE AND WILLIAMSON, THE MORE THEY GET OLD THE MORE THEY BECOME SENILE AND FOOLISH.
[He must be looking to cut a political deal with the SSPX, in order to unite it with the rest of the Newchurch.]
HA, HA, HA... YOU ARE FREE TO HALLUCINATE.
[It follows that he must ask of the SSPX neither too much, or it would refuse the deal, nor too little, because then the rest of the Newchurch would rise up in protest.]
HA, HA, HA... YOU HAVE FED UP YOURSELF WITH SO MUCH CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT YOUR OWN LIES HAVE SUNK DEEP WITHIN YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS. YOU ARE SO CONVINCED OF YOUR OWN INVENTED LIES. HA, HA, HA...
[The rumour from Rome is precisely that he is thinking of a "Motu Proprio" which would accept the SSPX "back into the Church" once and for all,]
HA, HA, HA... YOU KNOW THERE ARE ANOTHER TERM FOR YOUR CONSPIRACY THEORIES: RUMORS AND GOSSIPS. HA, HA, HA... THAT IS HOW CHEAP YOUR SSPX IS.
THERE IS FREEDOM OF DELUSION IN THE WORLD AND I'M GLAD THAT YOU ARE UPHOLDING IT. HA, HA, HA...
MY SUGGESTION IS THAT YOU STOP WAITING FOR THAT MOTU PROPRIO BUT INSTEAD WAIT FOR 'MULTO PROPRIO' OF WILLIAMSON. HA, HA, HA...
[yet require from the SSPX no explicit acceptance of Vatican II or the New Mass, but only, for instance, the acceptance of John-Paul II's 1992 "Catechism of the Catholic Church", which is substantially modernist but in a quiet way.]
WELL, IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT VATICAN II DON'T ACCEPT IT AT ALL. AND THE NEW MASS WILL BE BETTER LEFT AS IT IS FREE FROM THE PRESENCE OF LITURGICAL FOOLS LIKE THE SSPX WHO VIEWS EVERYTHING AS EVIL EXCEPT THOSE THEY ACCEPT.
I HAVE SEVERAL COPIES OF CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND YET NONE OF THEM EVER SPEAKS OR UTTER A SOUND. IT IS SURPRISING THAT YOU REFER TO IT AS MODERNIST IN A QUIET WAY. HA, HA, HA...
[Thus the SSPX would not appear to its followers to be accepting the Council or the New Mass, yet it would be softly, softly, beginning to go along with the substance of neo-modernism.]
HA, HA, HA... YOU CAN ALL WALLOW INTO THE OLD SYSTEM OF REBELLION STARTED BY LUCIFER... THE OLD... THE ANCIENT DRAGON WHO DECEIVED THE WORLD AND WHO DECEIVED YOUR FOUNDER LEFEBVRE WHO IN TURNED DECEIVED YOU.
[Kyrie eleison.]
KYRIE ELEISON. THE LITURGY IS NOT EXCLUSIVELY LATIN. ONLY FOOLS TEACHES 'LATIN ONLY'.
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![ST. JEROME EMILIANI [1486-1537]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6dKQTchkJaA/R0lo013dyBI/AAAAAAAAB_4/XzUAPDESwwQ/s1600/St.+Jerome+in+prayer,+small_1.jpg)
Fr. Abe,
ReplyDeleteWhy are you posting Bishop Williamson's blog writings as from "Anonymous" and also calling it an "exchange with an SSPX follower"? That is deceptive.
This has taught me one lesson about SSPX and sedevacantists: That sedevacantists are more honest and consistent than SSPX.
ReplyDeleteSSPX claims to recognize the Pope as the legitimate successor of Peter, only if they consider it profitable for themselves: for their fundraising bonanzas. For ex: in an SSPX priory in New Manila, the priest there is making emotional appeals to the benefactors and laity for money for the purchase of their property. For every P5,000 donation, a donor will receive a Papal Blessing Certificate from Rome. Nothing bad in it really, but you can't lambast an institution at the pulpit and then derive profits from it afterwards by invoking its prestige and honor in front of your benefactors who happen to have some personal attachment to the Bishop of Rome.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
there can be no question that the sspx which in not in schism as even admitted by cardinal castrillon hoyos of the pontifical commission Ecclesia Dei,and which is not sedevacantist. ultimately. the sspx will return to Peter's full embrace,presumably after Rome has abandoned the failed policies of Vatican II. something we are convinced must ( and will) happen in God's good time.
ReplyDeleteit is our considered opinion, however ,that the " state of emergency " at this point, far from having subsided, has become so firmly entrenched in the human element of the church that nothing short of divine intervention can restore holy mother church. since the church is no longer even able to generate the priestly vocation neccessary to provide the faithful with the sacraments. the rise in the number of " priestless parishes" is a grim reminder of this reality. By the way, am not talking of philippines alone. but, WORLD , you sold to sspx a lot of churches already ,PUNKY FREAK hehehe....
[there can be no question that the sspx which in not in schism as even admitted by cardinal castrillon hoyos of the pontifical commission Ecclesia Dei,and which is not sedevacantist.]
ReplyDeleteHA, HA, HA... CARDINAL CASTRILLON HOYOS STATED IT BASED ON THE LIES AND DECEITS OF SSPX OFFICIALS THAT THEY RESPECT AND HONOR THE HOLY FATHER. BUT IF CARDINAL HOYOS WILL READ THE ATTACKS AGAINST THE HOLY FATHER AND THE ECUMENICAL COUNCIL HOW THE SSPX FOLLOWERS ARE BRAGGING THAT THE POPE IN ROME IS IN HERESY THEN THERE WILL BE CONDEMNATIONS INSTEAD.
WE LET CARDINAL HOYOS DEAL WITH SSPX OFFICIALS AND WE DEAL WITH THE SSPX BASTARDS HERE. DEFNITELY CALLING THE POPE HERETICS AND THE COUNCIL NEOMODERNIST WHICH IS INCOMPATIBLE ALLEGEDLY WITH THE CATHOLIC TRADITION IS UNACCEPTABLE TO THE CHURCH OF ROME.
[ultimately. the sspx will return to Peter's full embrace]
HA, HA, HA... YOU ALREADY ADMITTED THAT YOU ARE NOT IN FULL EMBRACE OF PETER. SO THAT MAKES YOU SCHISMATIC. YOU ARE SEPARATED FROM PETER WHILE WE ARE FULLY UNITED WITH PETER AND WE REJECT THE AUTHORITY OF SSPX LEADERS.
[,presumably after Rome has abandoned the failed policies of Vatican II.]
YOU WILL DIE AND ROT IN YOUR COFFIN BUT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH WILL NOT ABANDON THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL. YOU WILL ROT LIKE THE ARIANS AND NESTORIANS BUT THE ROMAN CHURCH WILL NOT BUDGE.
THE VATICAN II IS SUCCESSFUL. IT HAS SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENTED ITS DEVELOPMENT IN THE CHURCH WITH VERY MINIMAL OPPOSITION FROM VERY VERY FEW SSPX. THE LITURGY HAS BEEN SIMPLIFIED FROM THE OVERLY CAPRICIOUS ONES PREFERRED BY SSPX. THE PEOPLE ENJOYS THE VERNACULAR IN THE LITURGY WHILE THE SSPX ARE ROTTING LIKE MADE DOGS IN THEIR HATE OF THE POPE AND VATICAN II. HA, HA, HA... WHAT A SUCCESS.
[ something we are convinced must ( and will) happen in God's good time.]
ReplyDeleteYOU WILL DIE AS DISAPPOINTED AS LEFEBVRE. HA, HA, HA... WILLIAMSON IS ALREADY SENILE AND AGING BUT HE TOO WILL DIE DISAPPOINTED. HE, HE, HE...
[it is our considered opinion, however ,that the " state of emergency " at this point,]
THE CHURCH IS NOT IN THE STATE OF EMERGENCY. THAT VIEW WAS PROPOSED BY LEFEBVRE AS AN ALIBI TO COVER HIS DEMONIC REBELLION AGAINST THE SEE OF PETER. THE PROBLEMS OF THE CHURCH ARE NORMAL SITUATION BECAUSE THERE IS NO SINGLE ERA WHEN THE CHURCH IS NOT CONFRONTED BY TRIALS AND PROBLEMS.
[far from having subsided, has become so firmly entrenched in the human element of the church that nothing short of divine intervention can restore holy mother church.]
IT IS THE SSPX WHICH IS IN NEED OF RESTORATION BECAUSE IT IS CUT OFF FROM THE TREE THAT IS PETER. THAT IS WHY YOUR SOCIETY HAS BECOME SOCIETY OF THE POPELESS AND IS ROTTING. IT NEEDS TO DECEIVE JUST TO GET NEW MEMBERS AND FOLLOWERS.
[since the church is no longer even able to generate the priestly vocation neccessary to provide the faithful with the sacraments.]
HA, HA, HA... THE NUMBER OF SEMINARIANS IN THE U.S. ALONE HAS INCREASED TREMENDOUSLY. THE SAME FOR AFRICA. IT IS A MATTER OF DISTRIBUTION OF THE CLERGY FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER.
LAST NATIONAL CONGRESS OF PHIL. CLERGY, THE FILIPINO PRIESTS ALONE FILLED THE CUNETA ASTRODOME WITH ABOUT 5,000 PRIESTS. HA, HA, HA... THE SSPX ANIMALS ARE LUCKY TO HAVE 10 PRIESTS FOR THE ENTIRE PHILIPPINES.
[the rise in the number of " priestless parishes" is a grim reminder of this reality.]
I STILL HAVE TO SEE A PRIESTLESS PARISH. WHERE? HA, HA, HA...
[By the way, am not talking of philippines alone. but, WORLD , you sold to sspx a lot of churches already ,PUNKY FREAK hehehe....]
HA, HA, HA... YOU ARE FREE TO HALLUCINATE. IT IS NORMAL FOR THE CHURCH TO EXPERIENCE SUCH A THING. WHY DON'T YOU GO TO CARTHAGE IF YOU WILL STILL ENCOUNTER THE SAME NUMBER OF CATHOLICS PRESENT THERE AS IN THE TIME OF ST. CYPRIAN, GO TO HIPPO, TO ANTIOCH, EVEN IN JERUSALEM, CORINTH... HE, HE, HE... THE CHURCH LOOSES SOME BUT WINS MORE.
I WILL CHALLENGE YOU: YOUR CORPSE WILL ROT BUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS STILL THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
ARIUS, NESTORIUS, LUTHER, CALVIN AND LEFEBVRE HAVE ALL DIED BUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS STILL THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND MUCH MORE. HE, HE, HE... HA, HA, HA...
WHEN EUROPE FAILS TO PRODUCE VOCATIONS THEN AFRICANS AND FILIPINO MISSIONARIES WILL GO THERE TO WIN THE CONTINENT FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. HA, HA, HA... JUST LIKE THIS YEAR. THE DIOCESE OF SORSOGON WHERE I BELONG SENT 15 PRIESTS TO SERVE IN THE UNITED STATES. HA, HA, HA...
HA, HA, HA... REALLY? THE SSPX PRIORY IN MANILA IS USING A PAPAL BLESSING CERTIFICATE IN ORDER TO ACQUIRE DONATIONS. HA, HA, HA... SEE... HA, HA, HA...
ReplyDeleteThis is just basically a rehash of Williamson's alarmist statement re: the discussion between Rome and SSPX. See this: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/08/sspx-bp-williamson-v-the-pope-of-christian-unity/
ReplyDeleteYou can try again to be original.
Meanwhile, it has been reported that Bishop Fellay was deeply irritated by this presumptuous recalcitrant Williamson. Says Bishop Fellay: "I’m very annoyed by the whole thing. Bishop Williamson’s statement is an unauthorized statement and is his own personal statement and not that of the Society."
Ahahaha, so you see know there seems to be a looming split in the Society. I take note that Bishop Fellay appears to be a more reasonable and charitable man than Williamson (whom I would withhold for the moment the privilege to be called Bishop). So Father Abe, that's the context of this Anonymous poster's statement: "Such Catholics may get full marks for wishing not to be cut off from what appears to be Rome, but they get low marks for not grasping that as long as the discussions remain doctrinal, there is no way in which the neo-modernist teaching of Vatican II can be reconciled with the Catholic doctrine of the true Church. Such Catholics may venerate and love Archbishop Lefebvre . They had best wake up if they are not in one way or another to fall into the arms of the neo-modernist Romans.especially to BASTARDS like you hehehe..."
You mean to say, Anonymous, that for you Bishop Fellay gets a low mark as a Catholic, is delusional, and a "bastard" (your language not mine)?
Oh well, what gives? :P
He, he, he... our readers have very sharp grasp of truth and reality.
ReplyDeleteHELLO, THEY WERE SENT TO ME BY AN ANONYMOUS. THE SENDER IS POSTED IN THIS BLOG FIND HIM. SO, I RESPONDED. I SIMPLY REACTED TO THE DATA THAT HE SENT ME. HOW DO I KNOW IF THAT IS THE WRITINGS OF WILLIAMSON. HE, HE, HE... IF IT IS HIS WRITINGS FINE. MUCH BETTER. I RESPONDED TO HIS OWN STATEMENTS POINT BY POINT.
ReplyDeleteDO YOU THINK THAT I AM AWARE OF THE LETTERS OF THAT... [NEVER MIND... HE, HE, HE]
hello, po fr.Abe na subaybayan ko po yung engagement nyo with anonymous, and i have noticed fr. that your the first one to go low and he just followed. concern lang po ako kasi maraming youth dito sa amin na ina idolized ka . but you played your own game so dirty.
ReplyDeleteI DIDN'T GO LOW ON THEM. I SIMPLY TREATED THEM THE PRE-VATICAN II WAY. I CALLED THEM HERETICS, SCHISMATICS, DOGS, FOOLS, ETC. THESE ARE COMMON TERMS USED BY MANY PRE-VATICAN II PREACHERS TO THE HERESIARCS.
ReplyDeleteLOOK AT THEIR ARGUMENTS. THEY WANT US TO BELIEVE THEM AND DISTRUST THE HOLY FATHER. THEY ARE TEACHING US TO CONSIDER THE ENTIRE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IN ERROR RATHER THAN CONSIDER THEMSELVES WRONG.
A CATHOLIC WHO IS ALL SMILE IN FRONT OF THE ENEMY OF THE FAITH IS NOT TO BE IDOLIZED. A CATHOLIC APOLOGIST CALL A SPADE A SPADE. LET US NOT BE HYPOCRITICAL WITH SSPX. THAT IS THE REASON WHY THEY HAVE DECEIVED SOME OF US BECAUSE WE TREATED THEM WITH KID GLOVES PREVIOUSLY.
[While the Rome-Society of St Pius X discussions are, by accounts from both sides, running into a doctrinal brick wall, together with a rumour from Rome spell danger for traditionalist Catholics.]
ReplyDeleteThe True Traditionals are those who are in Communion with the Pope and the bishops in communion with him. The act of fight tradition- be it the Tridentine mass or the ancient form of the discipline of the Church- apart from the Successor of Peter is a form of withdrawal of submission to the Roman Pontiff which is called “Schism” and not “Traditional Catholics”. De Galaretta and other SSPX bishops found themselves not hitting from a huge wall but found themselves a crushed with the Rock where Jesus Built his Church.
[That danger is a political deal which would simply go round the side of the doctrinal blockage. Politics threaten to circumvent doctrine.]
What does secular law has to come up with internal matters of the Church? The Holy See has independence from state laws. Have you red the Lateran treaty?
[a few months ago a large proportion of Catholics attending SSPX Mass centres are hoping and waiting for some agreement to come out of the discussions. If - repeat, if -- this is true, it is very serious. ]
ReplyDeleteThe population of those who support SSPX is far from the population of Catholics who accepts the Teaching Authority of Vatican II and the Pope. Have you seen the funeral mass of John Paul II which used the novus Ordo? Have you heard the demand of hasting up the call for his sainthood? Have you seen Benedict XVI’s Inauguration mass who uses also the Novus ordo Mass? There are more people who attend the legitimate Novus Ordo than those illegitimate tridentine mass of SSPX. So many that even the parish church who uses novus ordo cannot contain the congregation. There are many congregation who uses the Pauline Missal- the Dominicans, the Discalced Carmelites – who have their own variant of the Roman Missal prior to the 1970 liturgical reforms uses Novus Ordo and the SSPX supporters does not even reach their population. And is the SSPX priest are the only one who can celebrate the mass according to the 1962 edition? Excuse me, just so you know father Abe had celebrated the mass not only in 1970 edition but also in the 1962 edition. The Society of Saint Peter (who separated from the Popeless SSPX) celebrates also the the 1962 mass andenjoys “Pontifical right” unlike SSPX who has “NO CANONICAL STATUS”. The Ecclessia Dei here in Sikatuna, Philippines also celebrate the tridentine Mass but is in full communion with the Pope and recognizes the teachings of Vatican II. Also here in Davao, our cathedral is planning to build a traditional altar that would cater both the Tridentine and Novus Ordo. When a visiting SSPX priest arrive here in our city, only few of the faithful attended the mass and the chapel was still had vacant pews due to its low attendance. Ask a lay faithful here what is SSPX and they will never have an idea who are the SSPX. IT ONLY MEANS WE DO NOT NEED THE SSPX TO ENJOY THE TRIDENTINE MASS. In fact bishops do not openly embrace SSPX because they know its canonical irregularities. So They do not receive local support from the diocese where they are now especially here in Davao.
[Such Catholics may get full marks for wishing not to be cut off from what appears to be Rome, but they get low marks for not grasping that as long as the discussions remain doctrinal, there is no way in which the neo-modernist teaching of Vatican II can be reconciled with the Catholic doctrine of the true Church.
ReplyDeleteLet me repeat to you what Pastor Aeternus told us about papal infallibility: his See of St. Peter ALWAYS REMAINS UNBLEMISHED BY ANY ERROR, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren”. (Vatican I, Pastor Aeternus). By accusing the council of Heresy, you are negating what the fathers of Vatican I has taught. Vatican II never taught any modernistic Ideas. Its just you are having illusion so just to justify your reason to reject Vatican
[Such Catholics may venerate and love Archbishop Lefebvre .]
When Lefebvre died he neither refused to say sorry or admit his sins nor showed any remorse for ordaining bishops without papal mandate. He died excommunicated and disobedient and that is not a good model for us. That is the sin of disobedience. When he died, ordinary Catholics, even until now, ever heard of him. He was not even in the headlines and very few attended his funeral. But when the great pope John Paul II died, saint Peter's Square was not even enough contain the crowd with their cries of "Santo Subito".
[They had best wake up if they are not in one way or another to fall into the arms of the neo-modernist Romans.especially to BASTARDS like you hehehe...]
ReplyDeleteBastard is defined by Merriam-Webster Dictionary as "an illegitimate child". Remember well that the ordinations of bishops by Lefebvre to de Gallaretta, Williamson, Fellay and de Mallerais in the absence of Papal Mandate were valid but "ILLICIT". The sacraments they dispense are "valid but ILLICIT" because they are suspended"ad divinis" and no canonical status with the Church. Illicit means "not permitted : unlawful" according to Merriam-Webster dictionary. BASING ON THESE DEFINITION IT IS YOU'RE BISHOPS WHO FITS THE TERM "BASTARDS" BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGALLY CONSECRATED AS BISHOPS AND THE SACRAMENTS THEY DISPENSE ARE UNLAWFUL, ILLEGAL AND NOT PERMITTED.
OH AND BY THE WAY, ACCORDING TO THE TALKS OF MICHAEL DAVIES, (A SUPPORTER OF BISHOP LEFEBVRE), MODERNIST- DURING THE REIGNS OF LEO XIII AND ST. PIUS X (LIKE THE EXCOMMUNICATED PRIEST ALFRED FIRMIN LOISY )- WROTE THEIR ARTICLES AND IDEAS WITH PSEUDONAMES TO HIDE THEIR NAMES SO THAT THEY WON'T BE CAUGHT. IN YOUR STYLE YOU ARE IMMITATING THE STRATEGY OF THE MODERNIST LIKE ALFRED LOISY BY NOT STATING YOUR NAME. IT IS YOU WHO IS NEO MODERNIST BECAUSE YOU ARE IMMITATING THEIR STYLE... HAHAHAHA. THOSE PEOPLE LOYAL AND HUMBLY SUBJECTS TO THE BISHOP OF ROME WILL NEVER BE ASTRAYED OF HERESY UNLIKE YOU WHO THINKS TO BE SO TRADITIONAL BUT IN FACT POSSED BY THE SAME DEMON FOR REJECTING THE AUTHORITY OF THE VICAR OF CHRIST
[Agreement in front of doctrine means politics before religion, unity before truth, man before God. God before man means truth before unity, religion before politics and doctrine being more important than any non-doctrinal agreement.]
ReplyDeleteYou seem to forget the TRUTH in the fundamental basis of Ecclesial authority. Was it not "By Divine Institution" that Jesus willed that his Church will be shepherded by Peter and his successors? Was it not in Peter that the power of the keys- to bind and to loose, to open or to close, to allow and to forbid by Christ? Well that is what we do, we obey him because we believe in the promise of Christ to the Apostles ""He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." (Luke 1:16). Was it not also that Jesus willed the unity of every Christians? It is the responsibility of the pope to safeguard not ONLY THE PURITY OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH, BUT ALSO UNITY! You on the other hand failed to see fruits of ecumenical relations. Have you red Benedict XVI's "Anglicanorum Caetoribus"? Soon, those Anglicans who wish to join on Rome will come home while maintaining their patrimony. John Paul II and Benedict XVI met and exchange words of love with our separated brethren through ecumenical Dialogues. Ecumenical efforts is based on our Jesus mandate to "love our enemies" and his desire of Unity. SSPX on the other hand are like the Jews of Jesus Times. As the jews who sees themselves superior above the gentiles and Samaritans because they are the only one worshiping the True God, SSPX by rejecting ecumenism refuse to enter dialogue to our separated Christian brethren despite they worship the same God we love to.
[Only dreamers could not foresee the Rome-SSPX discussions running into a doctrinal brick wall. Only politicians can wish for any non-doctrinal agreement to come out of them.]
ReplyDeleteThey found themselves banging their heads to the Foundation Rock of the Church. SSPX bishops knew that very well that is why Fellay asked the excommunication be lifted and that means they cannot deny the fact of the burdening sanction that the Church imposed on them.
[Alas, to all appearances Benedict XVI sincerely believes in the Newchurch of Vatican II which is to unite in its bosom all men absolutely, regardless of whether they believe or not in the one true doctrine of the Faith. ]
ReplyDeleteHaha.... have you read the document of the Congregation of the Doctrine of faith regarding our separated brethren which the Pope Approves? It is stated that the True Church is the Catholic Church and that the oriental Churches are churches also but defective because they do not accept the AUTHORITY OF THE BISHOP OF ROME (LIKE WHAT LEFEBVRE DID), but it also states that "Christian denomination born out of the 16th century have no apostolic succession hence they are not true churches." (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html)
You may also want to read what he as cardinal and Lefebvre signed for a protocol agreement:
THE PROTOCOL AGREEMENT OF THE VATICAN AND ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
Signed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre on May 5, 1988
I, Marcel Lefebvre, archbishop-bishop emeritus of Tulle, along with the members of the Priestly Society of St. Pius X, which I founded:
1. We promise always to be faithful to the Catholic Church and to the Roman Pontiff, its supreme pastor, the vicar of Christ, successor of blessed Peter in his primacy and head of the body of bishops.
2. We declare that we will accept the doctrine contained in No. 25 of the Second Vatican Council's dogmatic constitution, "Lumen Gentium" on the ecclesiastical magisterium and the adherence owed it.
3. Regarding certain points taught by the Second Vatican Council or concerning subsequent reforms of the liturgy and law which appear difficult to reconcile with tradition, we commit ourselves to a positive attitude of study and of communication with the Apostolic See, avoiding all polemics.
4. We declare moreover that we will recognize the validity of the sacrifice of the Mass and of the sacraments celebrated with the intention of doing what the Church does and according to the rites in the typical editions of the missal and rituals of the sacraments promulgated by Popes Paul VI and John Paul II.
5. Last, we promise to respect the common discipline of the Church and the ecclesiastical laws, particularly those contained in the Code of Canon Law promulgated by Pope John Paul II, except for the special discipline conceded to the fraternity by particular law.
See? Even as cardinal he safeguard the unity of the church and Lefebvre was mandated to accept Vatican II! So in this document Benedict XVI as the visible head of the "True Church of Christ" renewed by the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council (and not some New CHURCH) both values the True Doctrine of Faith and at the same time values unity! He is not religiously indifferent as you think
{Therefore he sincerely wishes to gather in the SSPX as well - and he does not normally have too much longer to live ! ]
ReplyDeleteWho are you to set the life limit of the pope? Our pope Benedict XVI may be advance in age but take a look at how long Leo XIII reigned despite he was elected as pope with advance age.
[So the blockage of doctrinal discussions should not unduly worry him. He must be looking to cut a political deal with the SSPX, in order to unite it with the rest of the Newchurch. It follows that he must ask of the SSPX neither too much, or it would refuse the deal, nor too little, because then the rest of the Newchurch would rise up in protest.]
IF the SSPX does not wish to respond to the call of the pope's call to accept the authority of the pope well its up to them. But Outside of the Vicar of Christ, there the gates of hell exist.
[The rumour from Rome is precisely that he is thinking of a "Motu Proprio" which would accept the SSPX "back into the Church" once and for all, yet require from the SSPX no explicit acceptance of Vatican II or the New Mass, but only, for instance, the acceptance of John-Paul II's 1992 "Catechism of the Catholic Church", which is substantially modernist but in a quiet way. Thus the SSPX would not appear to its followers to be accepting the Council or the New Mass, yet it would be softly, softly, beginning to go along with the substance of neo-modernism.]
On the contrary, pope Benedict XVI has affirmed the Teaching Authority of Vatican II and he calls the SSPX to accepts the decrees of Vatican II:
"Precisely in fulfilment of this service to unity, which qualifies my ministry as Successor to Peter in a specific way, I decided several days ago to grant the remission of the excommunication to which the four Bishops, ordained in 1988 by Archbishop Lefebvre without a Papal mandate, were subject. I fulfilled this act of paternal compassion because these Bishops repeatedly manifested their active suffering for the situation in which they had found themselves.
I HOPE THAT HIS GESTURE OF MINE WILL BE FOLLOWED BY AN EARNEST COMMITMENT ON THEIR BEHALF TO COMPLETE THE NECESSARY FURTHER STEPS TO ACHEIVE FULL COMMUNION WITH THE CHURCH, THIS WITNESSING TRUE FIDELITY TO, AND TRUE RECOGNITION OF THE MAGETERIUM AND THE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE AND THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL."
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090128_en.html
You are really having your own illusions. The Pope has affirmed the teaching authority of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council. In fact he made Lefebvre agree to accept Vatican II but that promise-breaker broke it. Thus, for SSPX to be receive full communion, they are obligated to RECOGNIZE THE MAGESTERIUM, THE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE AND OF THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL INCLUDING THE CATHECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PROMULGATED UNDER THE POPE JOHN PAUL II
[Kyrie eleison.]
BEGGING FOR LORD'S MERCY BUT ATTACKING HIS VICAR? STOP YOUR HYPOCRISY. BY ATTACKING JOHN PAUL II AND BENEDICT XVI YOU ATTACKED THE ONE WHO SENT THEM.