Sunday, September 19, 2010

REFUTING THE LIES OF SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS AGAINST OUR TEN COMMANDMENTS

Moses carrying the Tablets of the Ten Commandments
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:47:59 PM Subject: the 10 commandments that I received from an SDA
Dear father Abe,
Good day!
Below is the table I got from an SDA member regarding to their claim that we catholic is the one changed the law hence we are the fourth beast in the book of Daniel as they've said. And they quote at Daniel 7:25.
Bible Ten Commandments
1st

am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2nd

xodus 20:4-6 You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my Commandments.
3rd

hou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God In vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4th

emember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that iswithin your gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
5th

onour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
6th

hou shalt not kill.
7th

hou shalt not commit adultery.
8th

hou shalt not steal.
9th

hou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10th

hou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Catholic Ten Commandments
1st

am the LORD thy God. Thou shalt have no strange gods before Me.

eleted. See also idolatry in the Catholic Church (There is idolatry in the Papal system so the second Commandment has been deleted or sometimes it has been absorbed into the first. All remaining Commandments are therefore shifted along one count.)

2nd

hou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.

3rd

emember to keep holy the Sabbath day. (The Sabbath is the fourth Commandment by normal count. The day to be kept is no longer mentioned since they changed the Sabbath to Sunday.) (Note that God had more to say about the fourth Commandment than all others and with good reason. It is very important.)

4th

onour thy father and thy mother.

5th

hou shalt not kill.

6th

hou shalt not commit adultery.

7th

hou shalt not steal.

8th

hou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

9th

hou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife. (The Tenth Commandment is split into two to get back to Ten Commandments.)

10th

hou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods.

Thank you so much once again father for always considering and give time in reading my messages.
Dear Bro. JV, First and foremost, the SDA are being deceptive here. It is because they presented the Ten Commandments as presented in the Bible while they presented not the Ten Commandments from our Catholic Bible for Exodus 20:4-6 instead, they chose the one we are using for Catechetical purpose which is a simplified version for simple people to memorize. Actually, the Catechism of the Catholic Church [CCC] which officially contains our OFFICIAL CATHOLIC TEACHING, gives 3 sets of TEN COMMANDMENTS. This can be found in CCC "Ten Commandments between article no. 2051 and article no. 2052. Here is the list of that 3 Ten Commandments
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Church, Mother and Teacher

The Ten Commandments

Exodus 20 2-17 Deuteronomy 5:6-21 A Traditional Catechetical Formula
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 1. I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.
You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. You shall have no other gods before me . . .
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain . . . 2. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your manservant, or your maidservant or your cattle, or the sojourner who is within your gates; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, a nd rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it. Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy . . . 3. Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day.
Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the LORD your God gives you. Honor your father and your mother . . . 4. Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not kill. You shall not kill. 5. You shall not kill.
You shall not commit adultery. Neither shall you commit adultery. 6. You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal. Neither shall you steal. 7. You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor. 8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's. Neither shall you covet your neighbor's wife . . .

You shall not desire . . . anything that is your neighbor's.

9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.

10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.

As you can see with your own eyes, Bro. Juvenal. The lies and deceits of the SDA are very obvious. They only presented our 3rd list of Ten Commandment, only the Simplified Version, which is usually given to children but not the first two lists which are the Biblical version given to Moses in the Book of Exodus and Deuteronomy. This is outrageous. They are attacking us by foul means. They are withholding information to the honest people like you by giving HALF-TRUTHS. You will see that Brother when I give you later a personal copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. You will see for yourself. But for the meantime where can you see that in the web? Here:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a3.htm#ten
So dear Brother, if the SDA are honest enough to show the complete lists of our Ten Commandments they cannot accuse us of deleting or changing or removing something from the Ten Commandments. Our Catholic Bibles and our Catechism have preserved the Biblical version of the Ten Commandments as they are handed on to us in Scriptures. Concerning the numbering of the Ten Commandments. They are claiming brod that our numbering is wrong and theirs is right. Excuse me. As you can obviously see in their diagram below the SDA simply and ignorantly combined Exodus 20:4-6
2nd

Exodus 20:4-6 You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my Commandments.

While the Catholic's Catechetical Formula concise Exodus 20:2-6 as First Commandment:
The Ten Commandments
Exodus 20 2-17 Deuteronomy 5:6-21 A Traditional Catechetical Formula
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 1. I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.
You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. You shall have no other gods before me . . .
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain . . . 2. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
The SDA on the other hand, did the same for Exodus 20:4-6. The question then Brother is which version is CORRECT. They made their numbering and we made our numbering. They chose to compact Ex 20:4-6 to form Commandment 2 and we chose to compact Ex 20:2-6 for Commandment 1. Which of the two sides has the Authority to decide which numbering is correct and the real one? THE CATHOLIC CHURCH of course! Really? Why? By what authority? By the Authority that Jesus gave to St. Peter. Don't you know that the Catholic Church is the one that put the Chapters numbering in the Bible? Yes, we did. It was done in 1226 by Stephen Langton, a priest and professor in University of Paris which later became an Archbishop of Canterbury in England way. He, he, he... The SDA has nothing to do with it. Don't you know that the Catholic Church is the one that put Verses within the Chapters of the Bible? Yes, we did. In 1551, the famous Catholic professor at Sorbonne University, Robert Estienne, inserted the number of verses in the Chapters. But before him in 1528 verses within Chapters of the Old Testament in the Latin Bible were made by the Dominican Friar Santes Pagnini. He, he, he... The SDA has nothing to do with the numbering of the Bible. IF THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO IN THE NUMBERING OF THE BIBLE THEY ALSO HAVE NOTHING TO DO IN THE NUMBERING OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. I hope this will settle the score with the SDA on Ten Commandments. About Daniel 7:25 we will response to that soon. God bless you. Rev. Fr. Abe P. Arganiosa, CRS
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43 comments:

  1. Look how ignorant is this priest. He said that the Church supplied three versions of the Ten Commandments, and that the SDA Church is trying to conceal the first two versions from the knowledge of the people. Well, we don't have any problem regarding the first two versions, but the problem is the Traditional Catechetical Formula, which is the widely known presentation of the 10 Commandments because it was displayed in the front of some Catholic chapels. How is that formula came into existence? What kind of spirit that pushed the Catholic Church to destroy the biblical order of this law? Did the Bible confirmed this Traditional Catechetical Formula?

    This may be one of the greatest lie I ever encountered.

    - denmark16

    ReplyDelete

  2. [Look how ignorant is this priest.]

    YOU ARE AS IDIOTIC AS YOUR DEMONIC PROPHETESS ELLEN GOULD WHITE.

    [ He said that the Church supplied three versions of the Ten Commandments,]

    OF COURSE, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SUPPLIED THE BIBLICAL VERSIONS OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS AND THOSE VERSES ARE CONTAINED AS WELL AS PRESENT IN OUR CATHOLIC BIBLES. THEREFORE, YOUR ACCUSATION THAT WE 'REMOVED' PASSAGES OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE.

    [and that the SDA Church is trying to conceal the first two versions from the knowledge of the people.]

    OF COURSE, SINCE YOU ACCUSED US OF REMOVING THE OTHERS THEN IT IS BUT PROPER FOR US TO CLAIM THAT YOU CONCEALED THIS FACT BECAUSE AS FAR AS OUR OFFICIAL LIST OF TEN COMMANDMENTS NOTHING IS MISSING. THE REMOVAL IS PRESENT ONLY IN OUR MINDS PREGNANT WITH LIES AND MALICE.

    [Well, we don't have any problem regarding the first two versions,]

    HA, HA, HA... THEN YOU ARE A FOOL. AFTER YOUR PASTOR IN CEBU ACCUSED US OF REMOVING SOME PASSAGES OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS NOW YOU IDIOTICALLY CLAIM THAT YOU DON'T HAVE PROBLEM WITH OUR BIBLICAL LISTS OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. HA, HA, HA... THEN, YOU ALREADY EXONERATED US OF THE CHARGES THAT WE REMOVED. IT IS TANTAMOUNT TO YOUR ACCEPTANCE THAT YOUR PASTOR HERE IN CEBU LIED WHEN HE GAVE THAT PIECE TO A CATHOLIC WHILE SAYING THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH REMOVED FROM THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.


    [but the problem is the Traditional Catechetical Formula, which is the widely known presentation of the 10 Commandments because it was displayed in the front of some Catholic chapels.]

    WE DON'T HAVE PROBLEM WITH IT AND IT IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS WHAT WE PUT IN FRONT OF OUR CHAPELS OR CHURCHES. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS INCLUDING THE DEMONIC STATUS OF ELLEN GOULD WHITE.

    [How is that formula came into existence?]

    BECAUSE WE MADE IT AS A SYNTHESIS OF OUR BIBLICAL FAITH!

    [What kind of spirit that pushed the Catholic Church to destroy the biblical order of this law?]

    HA, HA, HA... THIS IDIOT JUST ACCEPTED THAT THEY DON'T HAVE PROBLEMS WITH OUR BIBLICAL LISTS OF TEN COMMANDMENTS AND NOW HE IS ACCUSING US OF DESTROYING THE BIBLICAL ORDER. HA, HA, HA... YOU ARE AS STUPID AS ELLEN GOULD WHITE WHO IN REALITY IS BLACK IN FAITH AND IN DOCTRINES WHO IS SO IN LOVED WITH THE SABBATH OF THE PHARISEES.

    [Did the Bible confirmed this Traditional Catechetical Formula?]

    HA, HA, HA... YOU ARE REALLY AN IDIOT. HOW ABOUT THE BOOKS OF ELLEN GOULD WHITE ARE THEY CONFIRMED BY THE BIBLE LINE BY LINE, PAGE BY PAGE, CHAPTER PER CHAPTER?

    IF YOUR DEMONNESS ELLEN GOULD WHITE CAN WRITE BOOKS ABOUT THE WORD OF GOD THEN WE CAN ALSO WRITE OUR EXPLANATIONS OF THE WORD OF GOD. THAT IS WHY REFER OFFICIALLY TO THE THIRD LIST AS CATECHETICAL FORMULA. WE ARE NOT REFERRING TO IT AS THE BIBLICAL VERSES OF TEN COMMANDMENTS.

    [This may be one of the greatest lie I ever encountered.]

    IT IS NOT A LIE, YOU ARE SIMPLY AN IDIOT. YOU DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE BIBLICAL TEXTS AND THE EXPLANATORY TEXTS.

    [- denmark16]

    SO, YOU APPEARED AGAIN.

    ReplyDelete

  3. Fr. Abe,

    Ngayon ko lang po natagpuan ang site na ito,and im so happy that u created this blog to defend our catholic faith...more power po!simula po ngayon lagi ko na pong susubaybayan ang pkikipaglaban ninyo sa mga anti-catholics!eh karamihan naman po sa kanila eh katoliko din dati...good luck po and God bless you!

    ReplyDelete

  4. Thank you so much dear Anonymous. God bless you.

    ReplyDelete

  5. hindi po ako sda.. habang binabasa ko po ang mga talakayan.. nararamdaman kong galit na galit kayo sa sda..bakit po ba nasabi ninyo na demonya si ellen g white..papano po kung sabihin naman nilang satanas ang papa sa roma ... masasaktan po ba kayo??

    ReplyDelete

  6. They already did. The SDA are the ones who invented the 666 attacks against the Pope which found to be fake because there is really no written VICARIUS FILII DEI in the Tiara of the Pope.

    ReplyDelete

  7. Fr abe,, May the god LORD shower you with all his graces sana po sa liturgy of the word every mass nalalaman ng mga catholics how to defend our faith..Thanks po...AD MAJOREM DEI GLORIAM

    ReplyDelete

  9. kahit sabihin mo pang wala sa Tiara ng Papa nyo yan,.,.titulo pa rin yan ng Papa nyo.

    -denmark16

    ReplyDelete

  10. Ang Vicarius Filii Dei ay hindi official title ng Pope. His official Title is VICAR OF CHRIST or VICARIUS CHRISTI. Yan ang dahilan kung bakit maraming Catholics na hindi man lang alam yang Vicarius Filii Dei na yan.

    ANG PROBLEMA MO DENMARK AY ITO. ANG SABI NG BIBLIA ANG 666 AY PANGALAN NG TAO. HINDI TITULO.

    NGAYON, ANG PANGALAN NG INYONG PEKENG PROPETA NA SI ELLEN GOULD WHITE AY ANG SIYANG TUNAY NA 666. KAYA ANG DEMONIO ANG SIYANG NAGTATAG NG RELIHIYON MO.

    ReplyDelete

  11. Mali ka... sinong may sabi sa iyo na ang titulo ay hindi itinuturing ng Biblia na pangalan?

    Eto bibigyan kita ng titulo...

    Is 63:16 Sapagka't ikaw ay aming Ama, bagaman hindi kami kinilala ni Abraham, at hindi kami kilala ng Israel: ikaw, Oh Panginoon, ay aming Ama, aming Manunubos na mula sa walang pasimula ay siya mong pangalan.

    Kita mo yan? Yung salitang "Ama" ang akala ng tao ay titulo, ay tinawag ng Biblia na pangalan. Tapos sasabihin mo, iba ang titulo sa pangalan.

    At saka panoorin mo tong Video na to... pakianggan mong mabuti yung coronation statement. Nandun yung salitang..,. Vicarium Salvatoris Nostri. Binago nyo lang para makaiwas kayo sa isyu. Pero yun din naman yun,.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71y4BuXrfZQ&feature=player_embedded

    denmark16

    ReplyDelete

  12. [Mali ka...]

    HA, HA, HA... TALAGA HA.

    [ sinong may sabi sa iyo na ang titulo ay hindi itinuturing ng Biblia na pangalan?]

    E DI IPAKITA MO NA ANG TITULO AY ITINUTURING NG BIBLIA NA PANGALAN. KUNG MAY MAIPAPAKITA KA. HE, HE, HE..

    [Eto bibigyan kita ng titulo...]

    SIGE NGA.

    [Is 63:16 Sapagka't ikaw ay aming Ama, bagaman hindi kami kinilala ni Abraham, at hindi kami kilala ng Israel: ikaw, Oh Panginoon, ay aming Ama, aming Manunubos na mula sa walang pasimula ay siya mong pangalan.]

    HA, HA, HA... WALANG SINASABI DYAN NA ANG AMA AY TITULO NG DIOS. ANG SABI DYAN ANG AMA AY PANGALAN NG DIOS. NI HINDI NGA NABANGGIT ANG SALITANG TITULO DYAN. HA, HA, HA....

    PALPAK ANG TALATA MO.

    [Kita mo yan?]

    KITANG KITA KO NA WALANG BINABANGGIT NA TITULO DYAN. ANG AMA AY PANGALAN NG DIOS HINDI TITULO. YON AY TITULO SA TAO PERO SA DIOS HINDI IYON TITULO DAHIL ISA IYON SA PANGALAN NG DIOS.

    [ Yung salitang "Ama" ang akala ng tao ay titulo,]

    AKALA MO LANG YON. MALI ANG AKALA MO. ANG AMA AY HINDI TITULO NG DIOS KUNDI PANGALAN.

    [ ay tinawag ng Biblia na pangalan.]

    TINAWAG NA PANGALAN PERO HINDI TINAWAG NA TITULO. HE, HE, HE...

    [ Tapos sasabihin mo, iba ang titulo sa pangalan.]

    TALAGANG MAGKAIBA DAHIL WALA NAMANG NASASAAD SA TALATA MO NA PAREHO ANG TITULO AT PANGALAN. WALANG WALA. GUNI GUNI MO LANG YAN. HA, HA, HA... YAN ANG URI NG KATANGAHAN NA ITINURO SA IYO NG LUKA-LUKA MONG PROTETA KUNO. HA, HA, HA...

    ReplyDelete

  13. Ehehe, ako ba ang nagsabi na yung salitang "Ama" ay titulo? Kaya ko nga ipinakita sa yo yan kasi may turo kayo sa mga website na ninyo na ang salitang "Ama" ay titulo. Ano yan? magkakaiba kayo ng aral? Anong klaseng relehiyon yan? Parepareho kayong lumuluhod sa diosdiosan tapos magkakaiba kayo ng aral? Eto basa...

    "In the Bible the title "Mother" is never used for God. In the Old Testament (OT), God does use the title "Father" for Himself, but only rarely:

    He (King David) shall cry to Me (God), "Thou art my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation." [Psalm 89:26; RSV; cf. 2 Samuel 7:14; Psalm 68:6]

    The OT titles for God are mainly political (Lord, King, Master) or military (Fortress, Rock, Shield). It was Christ who first fully developed the title "Abba" for the God of Israel. "Abba" is Aramaic for father and not mother or parent (Mark 14:36). Jesus in the Gospel refers to the God of Israel as "my Father" [Luke 2:49] and "Our Father" as in the Lord's Prayer [Matt. 6:9; 23:9]. In the New Testament (NT) Epistles, the titles "God the Father" [Gal. 1:1; Eph. 5:20] and "God our Father" [Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3] are frequently used. God may at times describe His actions in terms of motherhood, but Moses and St. Paul liken themselves as mothers too (Num. 11:12; Gal. 4:19).

    Source: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resource.php?n=1009

    Pinaglololoko mo kami ser.

    ReplyDelete

  14. [Ehehe, ako ba ang nagsabi na yung salitang "Ama" ay titulo?]

    TALAGANG IKAW. HINDI MO LANG SINABI KUNDI IBINIGAY MO PA SA AKIN ANG SALITANG 'AMA' BILANG TITULO. ITO ANG SINULAT MO:

    "sinong may sabi sa iyo na ang titulo ay hindi itinuturing ng Biblia na pangalan?

    Eto bibigyan kita ng titulo...

    Is 63:16 Sapagka't ikaw ay aming Ama, bagaman hindi kami kinilala ni Abraham, at hindi kami kilala ng Israel: ikaw, Oh Panginoon, ay aming Ama, aming Manunubos na mula sa walang pasimula ay siya mong pangalan]

    IKAW MISMO ANG NAGBIGAY, GALING SA YO YAN TAPOS ISINUSUKA MO.

    [Kaya ko nga ipinakita sa yo yan kasi may turo kayo sa mga website na ninyo na ang salitang "Ama" ay titulo.]

    HA, HA, HA... GRABE DIN ANG KAPAL NG MUKHA MO ANO. IKAW ANG NAGSABI AT NAGBIGAY SA KIN NG TITULO IKAMO TAPOS NGAYON TATAKBO KA SA CATHOLIC WEBSITE NAMIN PARA MAKAHANAP NG PALUSOT.

    [ Ano yan? magkakaiba kayo ng aral? Anong klaseng relehiyon yan?]

    HA, HA, HA... BUANG BUANG NA ITO. ARAL BA NAMAN YAN E NEWSWEBSITE IYANG PINAGKUHAAN MO NYAN. HA, HA, HA...

    IYANG QUOTE MO E OPINION AT HINDI OPISYAL NA ARAL. ANG LAHAT NG CATOLICO AY ALAM NILA AT DINEDECLARA NILA ARAW ARAW AT TUWING MAGDADASAL NA:

    "SA NGALAN NG AMA..."

    SA AMING OPISYAL NA DASAL AT DOCTRINA ANG PANGALAN NG DIOS AY 'AMA'. HINDI NAMIN SINASABI NA "SA TITULO NG DIOS NA AMA..." HA, HA, HA... KAGUNGGUNGAN MO.

    IDADAMAY MO PA KAMI SA KAPUTAHAN NA TINURO SA IYO NI ELLEN GOULD WHITE HABANG SIYA AY PARANG ASONG NAGLALANDI.

    [Parepareho kayong lumuluhod sa diosdiosan tapos magkakaiba kayo ng aral?]

    IKAW ITONG TUMUTUWAD KAY ELLEN THE WHORE-HERETIC OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WHOSE NAME IS 666.

    [ Eto basa...

    "In the Bible the title "Mother" is never used for God. In the Old Testament (OT), God does use the title "Father" for Himself, but only rarely:

    He (King David) shall cry to Me (God), "Thou art my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation." [Psalm 89:26; RSV; cf. 2 Samuel 7:14; Psalm 68:6]

    The OT titles for God are mainly political (Lord, King, Master) or military (Fortress, Rock, Shield). It was Christ who first fully developed the title "Abba" for the God of Israel. "Abba" is Aramaic for father and not mother or parent (Mark 14:36). Jesus in the Gospel refers to the God of Israel as "my Father" [Luke 2:49] and "Our Father" as in the Lord's Prayer [Matt. 6:9; 23:9]. In the New Testament (NT) Epistles, the titles "God the Father" [Gal. 1:1; Eph. 5:20] and "God our Father" [Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3] are frequently used. God may at times describe His actions in terms of motherhood, but Moses and St. Paul liken themselves as mothers too (Num. 11:12; Gal. 4:19).

    Source: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resource.php?n=1009

    Pinaglololoko mo kami ser. ]


    HA, HA, HA... THAT IS JUST A THEOLOGICAL STUDY. THAT IS NOT OUR DOCTRINE. OUR DOCTRINE IS WRITTEN IN OUR CATECHETICAL MANUAL. OFFICIALLY, DOCTRINALLY... WE SAY "IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER". THE TERM FATHER IS NAME FOR GOD IN CATHOLIC FAITH.

    ReplyDelete

  15. Granting (but not accepting) na yan ay theological study gaya ng sabi mo. patunayan mo sa'kin na mali yang nasa website na kinota ko. May maipapakita ka bang otoridad ninyo na nagsasabing maling sabihin na ang "AMA AY TITULO".

    ReplyDelete

  16. HA, HA, HA... PA GRANTING, GRANTING BUT NOT ACCEPTING KA PA DYAN. TALAGANG THEOLOGICAL STUDY YON. KUNG HINDI MO YAN MATANGGAP BILANG THEOLOGICAL STUDY PROBLEMA MO YAN. SAKA KA BUMALIK SA KIN KAPAG TANGGAP MO NA.

    ReplyDelete

  17. hirap mo namang umintindi ng tanong padre. Tinatanong ko nga kayo kung mali ba yung statement sa theological study na yun, ayon sa otoridad katoliko? At saan ang ebidensiya nyo?

    ReplyDelete

  18. PANO KITA SASAGUTIN E IKAW ITONG MALABO ANG POSISYON E. ANG ARTE NG POSISYON MO. SIGURADUHIN MO MUNA ANG TANGGAP MO ITO O HINDI, ACCEPTED OR NOT, PARA MASAGOT KITA. PLAYING SAFE KA E. LINAWIN MO ANG POSISYON MO.

    ReplyDelete

  19. padre...sang ayon ako na yung Ama ay titulo. Biblically speaking, ang titulo ay itinuring na pangalan. Paero walang kinalaman yung tanong ko sa pinaniniwalaan ko. Nagtatanong ako dahil yun ang nabasa ko sa website ninyo.

    Eto ang tanong ko... mali ba yung statement na kinota ko galing sa website nyo? sagot...

    ReplyDelete

  20. Uulitin ko ang sinabi ko:

    HA, HA, HA... THAT IS JUST A THEOLOGICAL STUDY. THAT IS NOT OUR DOCTRINE. OUR DOCTRINE IS WRITTEN IN OUR CATECHETICAL MANUAL. OFFICIALLY, DOCTRINALLY... WE SAY "IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER". THE TERM FATHER IS NAME FOR GOD IN CATHOLIC FAITH.

    If you contradict my position then it is your duty to prove that IT IS NOT A THEOLOGICAL STUDY, THAT IT IS OUR OFFICIAL DOCTRINE THAT 'FATHER' IS NOT A NAME BUT A TITLE OF GOD.

    You are the one opposing me and therefore it is your duty to disprove my claims. Why are you giving me the burden of proving myself to you. Ha, ha, ha...

    ReplyDelete

  21. ang layo ng sagot mo padre. Di ka ba nahihiya na ganito ang way ng pagsagot mo sa blog mo? kung open kang magpatanong, dapat direct to the point ka ring sumagot.

    Hindi ko tinatanong kung yun bang statement ay doctrinal or what...

    ang tanong ko ay kung mali ba yung statement na yun? At sinong otoridad ang nagsabi na mali yun?

    ReplyDelete

  22. Well Done Fr. Abe!

    The anti-catholics over at www.bereans.net are tripping over themselves.

    sincerely,

    Gordon (emhc; vacariate of St. Peter & Paul Makati)

    ReplyDelete

  23. Dear Bro. Gordon,

    These Bereans have already lost any sense of credebility. After Catholic Apologetics confronted them fairly and squarely they have retreated to the shadows wounded in shame like Shelob of the Lord of the Rings Bk. 2. He, he, he...

    Nawala na ang yabang ng mga Born Again na nagdudunong dunungan sa Biblia. Gumagapang na sila ngayon sa lusak kapag binusisi ang mga aral nilang inimbento nila mula sa pusalian ni Martin Luther at ni Billy Graham.

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  24. si pader hindi na nakasagot sa tanong ko. Kakahiya ka,. lakas ng loob mong mag blog hindi ka naman marunong sumagot sa tanong/comment.

    ReplyDelete

  25. HA, HA, HA... HINDI PALA MARUNONG SUMAGOT SA TANONG. HA, HA, HA...

    GUSTO NYO PA AKONG IDAMAY SA KATANGAHAN NYO. GUSTO NYONG PATUNAYAN NA ANG TITULO AY PANGALAN. GUMAMIT KAYO NG TALATA NA NAGSASABI ANG AMA AY NGALAN NG DIOS. SUBALIT WALANG SINABI SA TALATANG BINIGAY NYO NA ANG TITULO AY PANGALAN. HA, HA, HA...

    GUSTO NYONG ILIGTAS ANG LUKA-LUKA NYONG FOUNDRESS NA SI ELLEN GOULD WHITE DAHIL ANG PANGALAN NYA AY 666. DEMONIA ANG NAGTATAG SA INYO. HA, HA, HA...

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  26. MALAYO PALA ANG SAGOT HA. HE, HE, HE...

    KUNG HINDI KA BA NAMAN BALIW. INILALAYO MO ANG USAPAN. ANG ISSUE RITO AY ANG CLAIM MO NA ANG 666 AY NUMBER NG TITULO NG PAPA NA VICARIUS FILII DEI. SABI KO HINDI TITULO ANG 666 KUNDI PANGALAN NG TAO. NGAYON, NAGMAGALING KA NA ANG TITULO AY PANGALAN. ITO ANG TALATANG GINAMIT MO:

    Is 63:16 Sapagka't ikaw ay aming Ama, bagaman hindi kami kinilala ni Abraham, at hindi kami kilala ng Israel: ikaw, Oh Panginoon, ay aming Ama, aming Manunubos na mula sa walang pasimula ay siya mong pangalan

    WALANG NAKALAGAY DIYAN NA ANG TITULO AY PANGALAN. AT WALANG NAKALAGAY DIYAN NA ANG AMA AY TITULO. ANG SINASAAD ANG AMA AY PANGALAN NG DIOS. AT YAN ANG TINUTURO NG IGLESIA CATOLICA BILANG OPISYAL NA DOCTRINA, ANG AMA AY PANGALAN NG DIOS.

    GUSTO MO LANG ILAYO SA DEMONIA MONG LIDER NA SI ELLEN GOULD WHITE DAHIL NAPAPAHIYA KA NA 666 ANG BILANG NG PANGALAN NIYA. HA, HA, HA... KINAHIHIYA MO NA TATAG KAYO NG DEMONIA.

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  27. brad, ang sabi sa theological studies nyo (gaya ng palusot nyo)...yun daw Ama ay TITULO. Mali ba yun? pakisagot.


    Source: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resource.php?n=1009

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  28. ANG OPISYAL NA TURO SA AMIN AY - ANG AMA AY PANGALAN NG DIOS. KAYA NGA "SA NGALAN NG AMA, AT NG ANAK AT NG ESPIRITO SANTO."

    HINDI KO OBLIGASYON NA SUSUGAN ANG OPINION O THEOLOGICAL STUDY NG ISANG NEWS AGENCY. KUNG PINAPANIWALAAN MO YON, E DI MAGSAMA KAYO. HA, HA, HA...

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  29. KE TAMA YON O HINDI, ISA LANG ANG TUTUO: ANG PUTA-PUTA NINYONG FOUNDRESS NA SI ELLEN GOULD WHITE AY 666 ANG BILANG NG PANGALAN. SIYA ANG WHORE OF BABYLON. KAYO ANG BUNGA NG KANYANG KAPUTAHAN NA WALANG IBA KUNDI ANG MGA MALING ARAL.

    ReplyDelete

  30. aba'y anong pakialam ko sa susog mo eh pipitsuging pari ka lang na hindi marunong sumagot ng direkta sa tanong.

    Ang hinahanap ko ay galing sa matataas na otoridad ninyo na nagsasabing maling sabihin na ang Ama ay titulo. O kaya ay isang katibayan na ang lahat ng mga nagsasabing ang Ama ay TITULO ay nagkakamali sa kanilang statement.

    Meron ba padre?

    ReplyDelete

  31. HA, HA, HA... TIGNAN MO ITONG ANAK NG BABAENG PATUTUT NA 666. HA, HA, HA...

    BINIGAY KO NA NGA SA YO ANG OPISYAL NA DOCTRINA NAMIN E. YON NGA ANG DINADASAL NAMIN ARAW ARAW AT LAHAT NG DASAL IYON ANG UMPISA AT HULI.

    IKAW ITONG NAGBIGAY SA KIN NG HINDI OPISYAL NA DOCTRINA. GALING SA NEWS AGENCY. HA, HA, HA... SA SUSUNOD DUN KA NAMAN SA PHILIPPINE DAILY INQUIRER KUMUHA NG QUOTE. HA, HA, HA... NAGPA UTO KA SA NEWS AGENCY TAPOS IDADAMAY MO KO SA KABALIWAN MO. HA, HA, HA...

    IKAW NGA E ANONYMOUS. HINDI TAO, BAGAY, LUNAN O PANGYAYARI. ISA KANG PANDIWA. HA, HA, HA... NA WALANG DIWA. KAMPON NG IMPAKTANG 666.

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  32. naku padre... hindi kapanipaniwala na nailampaso mo mga taga BARM. Eh dito pa lang namimilipit ka na ng isasagot. Tinawag mo pang kabaliwan yung pag-gamit ko sa sarili nyong site. Hahahaha

    Padre...
    sa Biblia, ang pari ang tinatanungan ng mga Israelita na may gusto malaman sa salita ng Dios. Dapat ganun ka rin. Eto ang tanong ko...

    May mga catholic online source na nagsasabing ang "ama" ay titulo. Mali ba sila?

    -denmark16

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  33. HA, HA, HA... NAMIMILIPIT PALA. E IKAW ITONG HINDI MO KAYANG PATUNAYAN NA ANG 666 AY VICARIUS FILII DEI. AT HINDI MO KAYANG PABULAAN NA ANG WHORE-FOUNDRESS NYO AY 666. HA, HA, HA...

    LUMULUSOT KA HA. GUSTO MONG ILAYO ANG ISYU AT DALHIN SA KUNG ANG AMA AY TITULO. HA, HA, HA... NGAYONG NAPAPAHIYA KA E LILITAW LITAW KA. PA ANO-ANONYMOUS KA PA. HA, HA, HA...

    NAKIKITA NG MGA NAGBABASA ANG PALUSOT MO. HE, HE, HE...

    ELLEN GOULD WHITE = 666 = WHORE OF BABYLON = BABAENG PATUTUT.

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  34. back read ka padre para hindi ka mukhang nangangapa sa sarili mong blog.

    Kaya gusto kong patunayan na ang TITULO ay PANGALAN din (biblically speaking), ay para patunayan sa yo na pag sinabi ng Biblia na "PANGALAN" ay maaari rin itong mangahulugan ng TITULO.

    Isa pa...ikaw ang unang nagdala ng usapan dito. Tutol ka na yung AMA na TITULO(ayon sa online source nyo) ay itinuturing namang pangalan sa Biblia. Ang ipinagtataka ko lang ay bakit iba ang sinasabi mo sa sinasabi nila, eh parepareho lang naman kayong lumuluhod sa rebulto at humahalik sa mga nabubulok na kalansay...na ipinagbawal naman ng Dios.

    -denmark16

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  35. [back read ka padre para hindi ka mukhang nangangapa sa sarili mong blog.]

    HA, HA, HA... IKAW ITONG HINDI NAGBABASA NG NAKARAAN MONG SINULAT E. IKAW ANG NAGBATO DITO NG TITULO NG PAPA:

    "kahit sabihin mo pang wala sa Tiara ng Papa nyo yan,.,.titulo pa rin yan ng Papa nyo.

    -denmark16"

    HA, HA, HA... KUNG HINDI KA BA NAMAN BUANG-BUANG E ANG 666 PANGALAN NG TAO. TAPOS GAGAMITIN MO ANG 'AMA' BILANG DEPENSA DAHIL KAMO TITULO NG DIOS. HA, HA, HA... HINDI BA KABALIWAN IYAN. GINAGAMIT MO ANG PANGALAN NG DIOS PARA PAGTAKPAN ANG KAPUTAHAN NI 666 ELLEN GOULD WHITE.

    HANDA KANG GAMITIN ANG PANGALAN NG DIOS PARA LANG KONSINTIHIN ANG LUKA-LUKANG NAGTATAG NG INYONG RELIHIYON. BALIW!

    ANG 666 AY PANGALAN NG TAO. HALIMBAWA NG TAO AY ELLEN GOULD WHITE. ANG EQUIVALENT N'YAN AY 666. WALANG SINABI ANG BOOK OF REVELATION NA "ITO AY TITULO" AT WALA RIN SINABING "TITULO AT PANGALAN". HINDI RIN SINABING "TITULONG PANGALAN". BASTA PANGALAN NG TAO. KAYA AKMA AT ANGKOP, EXACTO KAY ELLEN GOULD WHITE. LIBAN NA LANG KUNG AAMININ MONG HINDI SYA TAO KUNDI ASO. HA, HA, HA...

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  36. [Kaya gusto kong patunayan na ang TITULO ay PANGALAN din (biblically speaking), ay para patunayan sa yo na pag sinabi ng Biblia na "PANGALAN" ay maaari rin itong mangahulugan ng TITULO.]

    HINDI MO NAPATUNAYAN. WALANG SINABI ANG BIBLIA NA "ANG AMA AY TITULO NG DIOS NA PANGALAN DIN." HA, HA, HA... MERON BA? ANG SABI:

    Is 63:16 Sapagka't ikaw ay aming Ama, bagaman hindi kami kinilala ni Abraham, at hindi kami kilala ng Israel: ikaw, Oh Panginoon, ay aming Ama, aming Manunubos na mula sa walang pasimula ay siya mong pangalan

    BASAHIN MONG MABUTI. NI HINDI MAN LAMANG NABANGGIT ANG SALITANG TITULO DYAN. ANG AMA DAW AY PANGALAN NG DIOS SIMULA PA SA WALANG PASIMULA. IBIG SABIHIN THAT IS THE ETERNAL NAME OF GOD. HA, HA, HA... NGAYON, PARA MAKAPANLOKO KA NAGHANAP KA NG KAKAMPI KUNG SAAN SAAN... SA CATHOLIC NEWS AGENCY. HA, HA, HA... HINDI NA 'BIBLICALLY SPEAKING' YON. DAPAT SABIHIN MO 'BY CATHOLIC NEWS REPORT ANG AMA AY TITULO NG DIOS'.

    SO ANG BASEHAN MO SA IYONG POSISYON HINDI BIBLIA KUNDI ANG CATHOLIC NEWS AGENCY. HA, HA, HA... E DI GINAWA MONG TANGA ANG SARILI MO. WALA KANG MAKITANG PATUNAY SA BIBLIA TAPOS TUMAKBO KA SA NEWS REPORT NG CATHOLIC NEWS AGENCY. HA, HA, HA... WALA KANG BAIT SA SARILI. HA, HA, HA... PAREHO KAYO NG UTAK NI JOHN JOSEPH-LIVING GRACE-JON ERENICUS. PAREHO RIN KAYONG PABAGO-BAGO NG IDENTITY. HA, HA, HA...

    [Isa pa...ikaw ang unang nagdala ng usapan dito.]

    HA, HA, HA... BALIW NA ITO. TEN COMMANDMENTS ANG ISSUE NA I POSTED DITO. IKAW ANG NAGMAGALING TUNGKOL SA TITULO NG PAPA. NGAYONG NANLILIMAHID KA SA KAHIHIYAN DAHIL SA DEMONIA MONG FOUNDRESS NA 666 ANG PANGALAN E MAGHAHANAP KA NG IBANG ITUTURO. HA, HA, HA...

    [Tutol ka na yung AMA na TITULO(ayon sa online source nyo) ay itinuturing namang pangalan sa Biblia.]

    HA, HA, HA... ANG NEWS REPORT NA IYON AY HINDI OFFICIAL WEBSITE NG CATHOLIC CHURCH. HINDI KA NAKAPAGPAKITA NG OFFICIAL NA DOCTRINA NAMIN. ISA PA, HINDI NAMAN ANG PAGKA-AMA NG DIOS ANG USAPAN DITO. ANG 666 NA NUMERO NG PANGALAN NG ANTI-CRISTO. ITO BA AY ANG PAPA O SI ELLEN GOULD WHITE.

    HUWAG KANG TATAKBO SA LIKOD NG PANGALAN NG DIOS PARA TAKPAN ANG KAPUTAHAN NG FOUNDRESS N'YO.

    [Ang ipinagtataka ko lang ay bakit iba ang sinasabi mo sa sinasabi nila,]

    SINONG SILA? BAKIT MAY SINABI BA ANG CATHOLIC NEWS AGENCY NA MAGKA-IBA KAMI NG DOCTRINA? HINDI NAMAN DOCTRINA ANG PRINISENTA MO E. KUNDI THEOLOGICAL STUDY. IT WAS AN OPINION. WHO CARES ABOUT THAT. MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF CATHOLICS ARE MAKING RESEARCH PAPERS DAILY SUBALIT HINDI IYON MGA DOCTRINA. HA, HA, HA....

    KAMI NAMAN, HINDI NA NAMIN KAILANGAN PANG GUMAWA NG HOCUS POCUS E. BINILANG LANG NAMIN ANG NUMERICAL VALUE NG PANGALAN NI ELLEN GOULD WHITE AY KITANG KITA NA 666 ANG LUMITAW.

    ELLEN GOULD WHITE = 666 = DEMONIA = IMPACTA = MALDITA

    [ eh parepareho lang naman kayong lumuluhod sa rebulto at humahalik sa mga nabubulok na kalansay...na ipinagbawal naman ng Dios.]

    HUWAG MONG IBINTANG SA AMIN ANG MGA KADEMONYOHAN NG RELIHIYON NINYONG TATAG NI DEMONIA, IMPACTA, MALDITA ELLEN GOULD WHITE = 666.

    HA, HA, HA...

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  37. eheheh si padre, hindi alam ang sinasabi. Lagot ka kay arsobispo... nagtuturo ka ng ibang aral. Hahahahah...dapat sa yo ineexcommunicate. O kaya, kung hindi mo matanggap ang turo ng mas matataas sayo (na siyang dapat mong gawin dahil hierarchical kayo) eh lumayas ka na dyan sa iglesia nyong iba iba ng aral.

    Eto sabi ng arsobispo nyo...

    "The title “Holy Father” must propel us more directly toward the Father of heaven, the Father of mercies, the Father of lights, as the Pope does in receiving every person who desires to meet him, in going out toward those who wish to receive him, in not ceasing to make resound the message of Christ for all, a message which comes from the Father and leads to the Father."

    -ARCHBISHOP JEAN-CLAUDE PERISSET
    http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0038.html


    -denmrk16

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  38. [eheheh si padre, hindi alam ang sinasabi.]

    HA, HA, HA... WAG MO AKONG IDAMAY SA KATANGAHAN MO. ALAM KO KUNG ANO ANG OPISYAL NA DOCTRINA NG IGLESIA CATOLICA.

    [ Lagot ka kay arsobispo...]

    TALAGA? REALLY? ARE YOU SERIOUS? HA, HA, HA... WRITE HIM A LETTER GIVING DIRECT LINK TO MY BLOG. YOU WILL SEE THAT INSTEAD OF GETTING ANGRY HE MIGHT GIVE ME A REWARD. HA, HA, HA...

    [ nagtuturo ka ng ibang aral. Hahahahah...]

    HA, HA, HA... TIGNAN MO ANG BALIW NA ITO. HINDI NAMAN NAMIN ARAL ANG THEOLOGICAL OPINION NG CATHOLIC NEWS AGENCY AT NG ARSOBISPO. HA, HA, HA...

    [dapat sa yo ineexcommunicate.]

    TALAGA? REALLY? ON WHAT GROUND? HA, HA, HA... SA PAGSASABI NA ANG THEOLOGICAL OPINION NG IBANG CATOLICO AY HINDI NAMIN OPISYAL NA ARAL? HA, HA, HA... BALIW. WAG MONG IPAKITA SA AKIN ANG KAMANGMANGAN MO SA DOCTRINA NG IGLESIA CATOLICA. HA, HA, HA...

    [O kaya, kung hindi mo matanggap ang turo ng mas matataas sayo (na siyang dapat mong gawin dahil hierarchical kayo) eh lumayas ka na dyan sa iglesia nyong iba iba ng aral.]

    HA, HA, HA... PAGDATING SA OFFICIAL NA DOCTRINA IISA ANG AMING BASEHAN - ANG CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. HINDI ANG THEOLOGICAL OPINIONS. HA, HA, HA...

    [Eto sabi ng arsobispo nyo...

    "The title “Holy Father” must propel us more directly toward the Father of heaven, the Father of mercies, the Father of lights, as the Pope does in receiving every person who desires to meet him, in going out toward those who wish to receive him, in not ceasing to make resound the message of Christ for all, a message which comes from the Father and leads to the Father."

    -ARCHBISHOP JEAN-CLAUDE PERISSET
    http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0038.html]

    HA, HA, HA... SAAN DIYAN SINASABI NA ANG 666 AT TITLE AT HINDI NAME? SAAN? WALA, WALA, WALA. NOTHING, NADA, IN RUSSIAN: NYET, NYET. HA, HA, HA...

    AT WALA RINGS SINABI ANG ARSOBISPO NA 'BASED ON THE OFFICIAL TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 'FATHER' IS NOT A NAME BUT A TITLE OF GOD'. WALA. WALANG WALA. YAN AY OPINION LAMANG NIYA. HINDI KAMI PWEDENG PILITIN NA GAWING DOCTRINA ANG BAWAT SALITA NG BAWAT ARSOBISPO. HA, HA, HA... MAHIGIT 2,000 ANG ARSOBISPO SA BUONG MUNDO. LAHAT BA IYON PAG NAGSALITA DOCTRINA NA AGAD. HA, HA, HA... BALIW.

    HANGGANG NGAYON, HINDI MO MASIKMURA NA ANG INYONG FOUNDRESS ANG PATUTUT NG KAHALAYAN, ANG REYNA ANG KAHALAYAN. HA, HA, HA...

    ELLEN GOULD WHITE = 666

    HA, HA, HA... BAKA SABIHIN MO ANG ELLEN GOULD WHITE AY HINDI PANGALAN KUNDI TITULO. HA, HA, HA... BALIW.

    ReplyDelete

  39. sir... bakit hindi nyo na lang po idaan sa diskusyon kung sino ang tunay na Iglesiang sa Dios? ung sa kanya ba o yung inyo?

    ReplyDelete

  40. dapat kasi kapag nagsalita ka ng opinion or theologial study or whatever related sa religion dapat based on your official doctrines and based on holy scriptures. pwede kasi magkaroon ng misleading sa mga readers yan ganyan issue. di pede iba iba ng opinion ang bawat Paring Kataliko or bawat pastor ng mga ibang relihiyon. dapat uniform dapat concise.

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  41. BE CLEAR AND BE CONCISE ON WHAT YOU MEAN. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

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  42. Nice one Father Abe!
    I'm new to this site and it keeps my Catholic Faith Strong...May God continue to guide you and bless this site.

    To that person who wants to know kung anu ang tunay na Iglesia ng Diyos walang iba kundi ang ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

    > Jesus Christ is the founder of the Church
    > Jesus Christ appointed St. Peter to be the leader of His flock.
    > Christ is Divine therefore the Roman Catholic Church is the Church established by God.

    Lastly...
    If you think that SDA is the true Chruch think again!
    If you are destroying the Catholic Church's doctrine it's indeed obvious that that you belong to a false church founded by a foolish person who wants more money.

    to that person, I noticed that you are surrendering and out of Ideas as I go on with your discussion with Fr. Abe! hahaha

    ReplyDelete

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