Old Gregorian Chant Hymnal
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How about obedience to the Church. Vatican II mandates that "the use of the Latin language...is to be preserved in the Latin rites..." and that "care must be taken to ensure that the faithful may be able to say or sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them..." You are saying that we must obey the Council but now you are contradicting one of the Council's decrees. I thought you were Vatican II fans but now you are "disobeying" or "criticizing" Vatican II... Vernacular languages are PERMITTED by Vatican II but the contrary is happening now. It seems that the vernacular languages are MANDATED by Vatican II and the Latin language DISCARDED. But when we read Sacrosanctum Concilium it is clearly stated there that we must still USE, PRESERVE, STUDY, BE TAUGHT (by our priests/RE teachers), SAY or SING in LATIN. It is very sad that even our priests and apologists are saying something negative about the Church's use of Latin. I can still remember when we were still young (here in Mindanao, province area) we can understand Latin as if mystically even if we did not have any training on it. We can understand and grasp more the grandeur of the Mass in the Extraordinary Form that when it is in the vernacular. Look at some of our churches: the Mass can now be understood but few Mass goers. During the era of the Tridentine Mass: the Mass in Latin, "very foreign," but greater participation, learning, awe, solemnity, etc.
- Fr. Abe, CRS said...
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[How about obedience to the Church.]
THE SSPX IS DEFINITELY DISOBEDIENT TO THE POPE AND THE CHURCH. THAT CANNOT BE REFUTED BY GOOBLEDYGOOK REASONING OF THE SSPX SUPPORTERS.
[Vatican II mandates that "the use of the Latin language...is to be preserved in the Latin rites..."]
IT IS PRESERVED IN THE CHURCH.
ALL THE MAJOR DOCUMENTS IN THE CHURCH SUCH AS THE ENCYCLICALS, THE CANON LAW, THE DECREES OF VATICAN II ARE IN LATIN.
THE MASSES OF THE POPE ESPECIALLY THOSE BROADCAST AND AIRED UNIVERSALLY ARE IN LATIN. THERE ARE LATIN MASSES IN THE CATHEDRALS, MONASTERIES, SEMINARIES AND GREGORIAN CHANT IS POPULAR NOW A DAYS.
[and that "care must be taken to ensure that the faithful may be able to say or sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them..."]
THAT IS NOT A DOGMATIC DECREE BUT A PASTORAL ONE. HA, HA, HA... ISN'T THAT YOUR FAVORITE REASONING? HA, HA, HA...
INDEED, THE CHURCH PRESERVES LATIN AND MANY PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH CAN SING THE GLORIA, SANCTUS AND PATER NOSTER IN LATIN. HOWEVER, IN THE LOCAL SITUATION NOT ALL PARISHES ARE GIFTED WITH MUSIC TEACHER TO TEACH THE GREGORIAN CHANTS AND THE SONGS OF PALESTRINA. THE LOCAL SITUATION CALLS FOR GREATER USE OF THE VERNACULAR. AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
LATIN WAS FORMERLY A VULGAR LANGUAGE FOR BARBARIANS AND PAGANS SUCH AS OVID, JULIUS CAESAR, ETC. HOWEVER, THE CHURCH ABANDONED GREEK TO FAVOR LATIN FOR PASTORAL REASON. NOW THAT LATIN IS NO LONGER WIDELY USED AS BEFORE IT IS UNPASTORAL TO INSISTS ON A DEAD LANGUAGE IN THE LOCAL LEVEL.
BUT, YOU CANNOT CLAIM THAT LATIN IS TOTALLY ABANDONED. BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF CHURCHES WHEREIN LATIN, GREGORIAN CHANTS, POLYPHONIC SONGS ARE SUNG IN THE CHURCHES, CHAPELS, MONASTERIES AND SEMINARIES. EVEN THE POPULAR EWTN TV WHICH BROADCAST TO ABOUT 500 MILLION PEOPLE PROMOTES LATIN: THE HOLY MASS AND THE GREGORIAN CHANTS AND THE ORATORIOS. THE SSPX ARE NOT DOING THAT.
BESIDES THE MASS OF POPE PAUL VI IS ALSO ORIGINALLY IN LATIN. AND MANY OF US PRIESTS USE IT FROM TIME TO TIME.
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[You are saying that we must obey the Council but now you are contradicting one of the Council's decrees.]
WE OBEY THE COUNCIL AND WE DO NOT CONTRADICT IT. THE CONTRADICTION IS EXISTING IN YOUR MIND BECAUSE OF PROBABLY IGNORANCE OF HOW THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH PROMOTES AND PRESERVES LATIN ALL OVER THE WORLD. IN FACT, LATIN IS A REQUIREMENT SUBJECTS IN OUR SEMINARIES AND ECCLESIASTICAL DEGREES. FOR SURE WE HAVE MORE SEMINARIANS AND PRIESTS AND THEOLOGY STUDENTS THAN THE SSPX. HE, HE, HE...
[I thought you were Vatican II fans but now you are "disobeying" or "criticizing" Vatican II...]
YOUR THOUGHTS ARE NOT MY THOUGHTS. SO, BETTER FOR YOU TO ATTUNE YOUR THOUGHTS.
[Vernacular languages are PERMITTED by Vatican II but the contrary is happening now.]
IT IS PERMITTED. AND WHEN IT WAS PERMITTED IT BECAME VERY POPULAR THAT IT SWEPT THE WHOLE WORLD. THERE ARE ALSO CLAMOR FOR LATIN IN THE MASSES AND IN THE SONGS. BUT THE GREAT MAJORITY ARE ALSO LOVING AND ENJOYING THE VERNACULAR.
WHEN IT WAS PERMITTED THEN IT IS PERMISSIBLE AND A GOOD THING TO USE. SO, WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM WITH IT? ANY PROBLEM?
IF YOU WANT TO PRESERVE LATIN THEN TELL YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY AND PARISH TO SPEAK IN LATIN DAILY SO THAT YOUR PARISH PRIEST WILL MAKE IT THE PRIMARY LANGUAGE IN THE MASSES THERE. HA, HA, HA...
[It seems that the vernacular languages are MANDATED by Vatican II and the Latin language DISCARDED.]
LATIN IS NOT DISCARDED. IT SIMPLY NATURALLY DIED OUT AS A LANGUAGE OF THE PEOPLE. IT IS THE NATURAL COURSE OF HISTORY THAT KILLED LATIN NOT THE LITURGY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. YOU JUST SIMPLY CANNOT ACCEPT THE FACT THAT LATIN HAS FADED AWAY. THAT REALITY IS BEYOND THE CONTROL OF EVERYONE. WHEN ENGLISH FADES LATER ON THE CHURCH WILL ALSO REPLACED IT WITH THE NEW LANGUAGE. THAT IS THE REALITY OF LIFE.
STOP YOUR DELUSIONS IN FAVOR OF REALITY. THE CHURCH PRESERVES LATIN BUT IT IS OF NO AVAIL BECAUSE THE FACT IS THAT LATIN HAS FADED AWAY.
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[But when we read Sacrosanctum Concilium it is clearly stated there that we must still USE, PRESERVE, STUDY, BE TAUGHT (by our priests/RE teachers), SAY or SING in LATIN.]
IT IS BEING DONE. HOWEVER, THAT COMMAND IS NOT DOGMATIC BUT PASTORAL. THE VERNACULAR BLEW LATIN AWAY IN THE PRACTICAL LIFE OF THE CHURCH ON THE GRASSROOTS. BUT OFFICIALLY, THE CHURCH STILL EXERTS EFFORTS TO PRESERVE IT.
[It is very sad that even our priests and apologists are saying something negative about the Church's use of Latin.]
EXCUSE ME. I LOVE LATIN MORE THAN YOU. I AM ONE OF THE FEW PRIESTS IN THIS COUNTRY CELEBRATING THE TRIDENTINE LATIN MASS AND TOGHETHER WITH MY BROTHER PRIESTS WE ARE CELEBRATING THE PAULINE MASS IN LATIN. FOR INSTANCE, IN THE DIOCESAN HOUSE FOR THE CLERGY OUR BISHOP, ARTURO M. BASTES, SVD, DD CELEBRATES THE LATIN MASS WITH PRIESTS AND SEMINARIANS WEEKLY IN ORDINARY FORM. THE SAME IN OUR SOMASCAN SEMINARY IN PAMPANGA AND IN TAGAYTAY.
[I can still remember when we were still young (here in Mindanao, province area) we can understand Latin as if mystically even if we did not have any training on it.]
PRAISE THE LORD FOR YOUR MENTAL PROWESS BUT I HOPE YOU WILL ALSO DENY THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE SAME MENTAL ABILITY THAT YOU HAVE. YOU UNDERSTAND IT PROBABLY BECAUSE OF FAMILIARITY WITH THE TEXT BUT NOT REALLY HAVING AN INSTINCTIVE UNDERSTANDING OF ITS GRAMMAR, SYNTAX, EXPRESSIONS AND THE RICHNESS OF ITS EVERY VOCABULARY. STILL YOU WERE VERY MUCH IMPAIRED.
UNLIKE THE MASSES TODAY WHO ARE TRULY UNVEILED TO THE EARS AND THE HEART AND THE MIND OF THE WORSHIPERS.
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[We can understand and grasp more the grandeur of the Mass in the Extraordinary Form that when it is in the vernacular.]
O I DOUBT THAT VERY MUCH. I HAVE TALKED TO MANY FORMER ALTAR BOYS WHO ARE NOW OLD. THEY TOLD ME ABOUT THE JOKES THEY WERE DOING WHILE THE PRIESTS WERE CELEBRATING WITH HIS BACK ON THEM. THEY WERE TELLING ME OF OLD PEOPLE JUST RECITING NOVENAS AND ROSARIES DURING CONSECRATIONS AND ALSO SLEEPING BECAUSE OF THE PROLONGED SILENCE.
HAVE YOU HEARD HOW THE YOUNG PEOPLE OF THOSE TIMES JOKED ABOUT 'SAECULA SAECULORUM'? THEY WERE SINGING ON THE STREETS ACCORDING TO MY LOLO: "KOLORUM, KOLORUM... KINULA ANG KOLORUM'. HA, HA, HA... HOW ABOUT THE 'SPIRITUM FACTUM' BEING USED AS A JOKE: "IMPAKTUM, IMPAKTUM...". DO YOU KNOW THAT? HAVE YOU HEARD THAT? IF YOU THINK THAT THE LITURGY OF PRE-VATICAN II WERE ALL GLORY AND BEAUTY YOU ARE OUT OF REALITY. EVEN DURING THE APOSTOLIC TIMES THERE WERE ABUSES.
I HAVE TALKED TO MANY OLD PRIESTS WHO ARE SO HAPPY THAT THE RIGID AND METICULOUS RITE WAS REPLACED BY A MORE SIMPLE ONE. AND THEY ALSO TOLD ME THAT THE RICHLY DECORATED VESTMENTS OF THE PRIESTS SCANDALIZES THE POOR IN THEIR POVERTY AND SIMPLICITY.
AS A YOUNG SEMINARIAN I ALSO INTERVIEWED A LOT OF OLD PRIESTS AND MONSIGNORI, AS WELL AS OLD FOLKS. I ASSURE YOU MORE ARE IN FAVOR OF THE CHANGE. ONLY WHEN I STUDIED IN PHILOSOPHY DID THE SSPX ISSUE CAME TO ME BUT IT WAS NOT A BIG FACTOR FOR ME THEN BECAUSE OUR PEOPLE LOVES THE VERNACULAR MASS.
DON'T JUST LOOK AT THE GRANDEUR ALSO LOOK AT PASTORAL REALITY.
[Look at some of our churches: the Mass can now be understood but few Mass goers.]
HA, HA, HA... YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY LYING HERE. I'VE VISITED SO MANY PLACES OF THE COUNTRY AND EVERYWHERE I GO THE CHURCHES ARE FILLED EVERY SUNDAY. MANY CHURCHES HAVE SEVERAL MASSES IN EVERY PARISH. HA, HA, HA... MAY BE THERE ARE ONLY 1O HOUSES IN YOUR HOMETOWN THAT IS WHY. HE, HE, HE...
THAT IS A COMMON LIE OF THE SSPX. THAT THE CHURCHES ARE GETTING EMPTY. IN EUROPE MAY BE. BUT NOT HERE IN THE PHILIPPINES. I WAS TOLD THAT IN INDONESIA THE FERVOR OF THE PEOPLE IN THE MASS IS SO GREAT THAT WHILE SINGING THEY WERE EVEN CRYING WITH TEARS OF JOY. THE SAME THING IN AFRICA.
THE EMPTINESS OF CHURCHES IN EUROPE IS CAUSED NOT BY VATICAN II BUT BY PORNOGRAPHY, ABORTIONS, HOMOSEXUALITY, DRUGS, VICES, BUSINESS, ETC.
[During the era of the Tridentine Mass: the Mass in Latin, "very foreign," but greater participation, learning, awe, solemnity, etc.]
THAT IS NOT TRUE. THERE WERE ALSO ABUSES BEFORE. THERE WERE PRIESTS ACCORDING TO OUR OLD PRIESTS WHO WERE CUTTING THE PRAYERS OF THE MASS TO MAKE IT SHORT. THE HOMILY WAS ONLY PURE SHOUTING DECLARING THE SINS OF THE PEOPLE AS IF THE ENTIRE ASSEMBLY ARE ALWAYS IN MORTAL SIN.
THERE WERE ALSO PRIESTS IMPREGNATING WOMEN BEFORE AND MOLESTING BOYS. BUT THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE VICTIMS PREFER TO BE SILENT BECAUSE THERE WERE NO MEDIA THEN TO EXPOSE THE EVIL DONE.
DON'T PRETEND AS IF THERE WERE NO MORTAL SINS DURING THE PRE-VATICAN II CHURCH. EXCUSE ME. SEXUAL, LITURGICAL, ECONOMIC, SOCIAL, POLITICAL ABUSES ARE PRESENT IN THE WORLD OR IN THE CHURCH DURING THE TIME OF POPE PETER, POPE PIUS V [THAT IS WHY THERE WERE REFORMATION THEN DUE TO ABUSES AND SCANDALS] OR PIUS XII OR BENEDICT XVI.
THE CHURCH IS ALWAYS COMPOSED OF SAINTS AND SINNERS FROM THE FIRST CENTURY UNTIL NOW. DON'T TELL ME THAT YOUR ERA IS HOLIER THAN OUR AGE TODAY. THE SINS OF THE WORLD TODAY ARE BROADCASTED BY TV AND RADIO. DURING THOSE TIMES THEY ARE SIMPLY KEPT IN SECRET. PADRE DAMASO IS NOT A VATICAN II PRIEST BUT A PRE-VATICAN II. PHILIPPINE HISTORY CAN ATTESTS TO THE CORRUPTION AND EVIL AND IMMORALITIES PRESENT IN THE CHURCH AND IN THE SOCIETY DURING THE PRE-VATICAN II ERA.
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![ST. JEROME EMILIANI [1486-1537]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6dKQTchkJaA/R0lo013dyBI/AAAAAAAAB_4/XzUAPDESwwQ/s1600/St.+Jerome+in+prayer,+small_1.jpg)
Maraming salamat, padre sa pagsagot mo sa mga katanungang gan'to. It really helped us, particularly me, na nalilito na din sa issue na 'to. Personally, I am a lover of the old rite, even though I have never attended one, pero may mga napapanuod na din akong ganun on videos, and I really love it. Actually meron na akong missal ng Tridentine Mass at nag-aaral na din ako ng Latin, self-study. Pero kahit na ganun, mahal ko pa din 'tong Mass natin ngayon. Dito na kasi ako namulat, dito sa Mass na 'to lumaki, nag-grow, at tumatag 'yung pananampalataya ko. Dito din sa Mass na 'to na-feel ko ang pagmamahal ni Lord. That's why I feel hurt sa mga naririnig kong paninira sa Mass na 'to. I think they have impaired sight on the Tradition they uphold to. Nakakalungkot lang isipin, they claimed to be the REAL CATHOLICS, pero hindi naman marunong sumunod sa katuruan ng simbahan. How can they be catholics if they couldn't obey the Church itself. Tingin pa ata nila mas marunong pa sila sa simbahan. Even though I am a lover of the Old Rite, I am thankful at nagkaroon ng Vatican II. Sana maintindihan ito ng mga kapatid nating nahihiwalay na sa simbahan dahil sa paniniwala nilang 'to. Tibi gratias ago pater. Deus te benedicat.
ReplyDeleteWhat's going on with this priest??
ReplyDeleteIt is a low class debate/opposition to the Tradition.
I hope you are tired of the batteries, bongos, inventions, "Charismatic Masses", etc
Simply, many people are waking up, and this is a honest and very good thing happening to the Church. Moreover, the Holy Father has called us to 1) Reform of the reform, 2) Keep a clear hermeneutic of the continuity, and 3) Do a sound critique to the pastoral Council of Vatican II.
These are the facts. And, God bless the Church for that.
FR anong say nyo po sa pagsuporta ni PNOY sa RH bill
ReplyDeleteI STRONGLY CONDEMN IT. WE HAVE TO FIGHT FOR THE GOSPEL OF LIFE EVEN IF IT MEANS WE HAVE TO OPPOSE TEH PRESIDENT.
ReplyDeleteDi ba gusto nyo po s noynoy
ReplyDeleteHello po Father,
ReplyDeleteShare ko lang po, kasi simula po nung bata kami hanggang ngayon every simbang gabi po,nkaugalian na po sa probinsya namin ang pagkanta nang latin songs sa misa,especially po sa kyrie at sanctus!May palabas din po kami na mga "pastores" na halos lahat ng kanta na tinuturo sa amin eh latin,un nga lang hindi namin masyadong maintindihan..hehe..sori Lord ha! Pro proud pa rin po ako kahit papaano kasi napreserve un sa lugar namin kahit once in a while lng gmitin.yun nga lang po,medyo nakakaantok sa misa ung ibang mga kanta..hehe..peace po!
[What's going on with this priest??]
ReplyDeleteI SIMPLY REALIZED THAT THE SSPX IS FULL OF HYPOCRISY.
[It is a low class debate/opposition to the Tradition.]
IT IS BECAUSE OUR OPPONENTS ARE ALSO LOW CLASS.
IF YOU THINK THAT THE SSPX IS UPHOLDING TRADITION YOU ARE INTO HALLUCINATION. DISOBEDIENCE TO THE VICAR OF CHRIST IS NEVER EVER PART OF TRADITION.
NO DOGMA EVER STATES THAT A CATHOLIC WHO LOVES TRADITION WILL REJECT THE AUTHORITY OF THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER. THAT IS NOT TRADITION BUT DAMNATION... I.E., GIVING IN TO THE GATE OF HELL.
[I hope you are tired of the batteries, bongos, inventions, "Charismatic Masses", etc]
I'M TIRED OF THE HYPOCRISIES OF SSPX AND THEIR ATTACKS AGAINST THE HOLY FATHER AND THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL. I'M TIRED OF THEIR CONSPIRACY THEORIES.
AND ALL MASSES APPROVED BY THE HOLY I ACCEPT AND RESPECT. THE CHARISMATICS ARE DOING MORE GOOD THINGS IN THE WORLD THAN THE SSPX. I HAVE SEEN WITH MY OWN EYES HOW FORMER PROTESTANTS BECAME CATHOLIC THROUGH CATHOLIC CHARISMATICS.
[Simply, many people are waking up, and this is a honest and very good thing happening to the Church.]
YES, MORE AND MORE SSPX FOLLOWERS ARE RETURNING TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. AND MORE AND MORE CATHOLICS ARE NOW RESPONDING TO THE LIES AND DECEITS OF THE SSPX AND THE SEDEVACANTISTS.
[Moreover, the Holy Father has called us to 1) Reform of the reform,]
THAT'S GOOD. EVERY FATHER OF THE FAMILY IS ASKING THEIR CHILDREN TO CLEAN AND IMPROVE THE HOUSE. BUT WE DO NOT ALLOW OUTSIDERS TO INSULT OR CRITICIZE OUR HOME.
REFORM OF THE REFORM IS OUR INTERNAL AFFAIR.
[ 2) Keep a clear hermeneutic of the continuity,]
THERE IS NO DISCONTINUITY IN THE CHURCH EVERYTHING IS PART OF 'CONTINUITY'. LIKE FOR INSTANCE, MASS IN VERNACULAR. EVER SINCE THE CHURCH USES SEVERAL LANGUAGES FOR THE LITURGY AND NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE CHURCH THE PRACTICE OF 'LATIN ALONE'.
[ and 3) Do a sound critique to the pastoral Council of Vatican II.]
THE VATICAN COUNCIL IS PASTORAL BUT NOT PASTORAL ONLY. IT IS ALSO DOGMATIC THROUGH ITS DOGMATIC CONSTITUTIONS LUMEN GENTIUM AND DEI VERBUM.
WHAT THE VATICAN II NEEDS IS NOT CRITIQUE BUT A BETTER IMPLEMENTATION.
AND WHAT IS NEEDED IS FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO FORM ORDERS AND GROUPS TO BE FULL TIME APOLOGISTS AGAINST THE SSPX, SEDEVACANTISTS AND OTHER TRAITORS TO THE FAITH. SO THAT THEIR LIES AND DECEITS CAN BE BROUGHT OUT INTO THE LIGHT.
[These are the facts.]
THAT IS YOUR DELUSIONS.
[And, God bless the Church for that.]
THE CHURCH IS BLESSED BUT THE SSPX IS NOT. IT IS CURSED.
DEAR ANONYMOUS,
ReplyDeletePRAISE THE LORD.
THAT MUST BE THE TRUE ATTITUDE OF A 'GENUINE' TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC: OBEDIENT TO THE CHURCH AND HE LOVES ALL THE VALID AND AUTHORIZED LITURGY OF THE CHURCH. NOT SELECTIVE.
Even Pope Benedict XVI acknowledges that there was a "hermeneutic of rupture" that happened in some circles of the Church. Paul VI even says that "the smoke of Satan has entered the Church." These are not my words. They're from the Popes.
ReplyDeleteGood evening Father. This is with regards to the RH Bill. The Church is against artificial birth control because it is immoral, its contra/anti LIFE. The Church, on the other hand, advocates natural birth control. But it is still birth control. The end is still the curtailment of birth. We can therefore conclude that although the means is natural but the purpose is still anti LIFE. Kindly clarify po, Father.
ReplyDeleteHello Father. I am a lover po of the Liturgy of the Church and I'm on a traditionalist inclination po. But, I acknowledge the validity, worth and beauty of the Novus Ordo solemnly and properly celebrated. I also lament on the abuses that happened and is happening in the name of extreme inculturation and disregard of tradition. I also have some setbacks with the Novus Ordo Mass, expecially our English translation of it. It's so banal. I'm also sad at how the Mass is celebrated by our priests. For example in the televised Mass: compare ABS-CBN's Mass with the Episcopalian "Mass" in NBN. The latter seems to be more Catholic than the former. Our priests (not all) do not wear the proper vestments, say the prayers somewhat hurriedly, not executing the proper gesture (kakaunti na nga lang ang genuflections ino-omit pa). etc. I know Father that you are aware of all these. I also love the Tridentine Mass, its sacrificial emphasis, solemnity, other-worldly character, the obvious Christocentricity, the silence, our beautiful Gregorian chants, etc. Sana, isina-vernacular na lang ito, with full and active lay participation, mas maganda sana, with some minor reforms (own thoughts ko lang po ito, Father). I also pray the Divine Office and live the Liturgical Year, from day to day, season to season. I usually use the Liturgy of the Hours but on more solemn feasts I use the 1962 Breviary in English/Latin. I don't like the hymns in Christian Prayer breviary. They are not the proper Office hymns. I also have some setbacks with the new Divine Office. But, in general, I love the Church's liturgy, in all its forms and varied rites. Just sharing, Father. Thanks po.
ReplyDeletethe Holy Catholic Church is ONE, thus using only one language in public ceremony, the use of Latin Language keeps the Church ONE.. but the use of vernacular languages, makes the church divided. i cannot attend a russian novus ordo mass because i cannot understand, i cannot attend Chinese Novus Ordo Mass because i dont understand. THus using vernacular language is dividing the Church.
ReplyDeleteWhereas, I attend Latin Mass in Russia, I can understand, Or attend Latin Mass in all parts of the World, I can understand. Becauase the Church is ONE...with ONE UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE, i like people who are criticizing the Old Latin Mass as BORING....
Thank you for the nice sharing.
ReplyDeleteAKO DIN YAN DIN ANG GUSTO KO. SANA ANG BUONG TLM AY ISINALIN SA VERNACULAR. THEN NILAKASAN LANG ANG PAGBIGKAS SA CANON BUT ALMOST EVERYTHING PRESERVED. PERO, I RESPECT THE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE KASI ANG PRINCIPLE NA SINUNOD AY: TO MAKE THINGS SIMPLE.
[Good evening Father.]
ReplyDeleteGOOD EVENING TOO.
[This is with regards to the RH Bill. The Church is against artificial birth control because it is immoral, its contra/anti LIFE.]
CORRECT.
[The Church, on the other hand, advocates natural birth control.]
THE NATURAL METHOD IS NOT CALLED NATURAL BIRTH CONTROL BECAUSE IT IS THE PRIVILEGE OF THE NATURAL PROCESS OF NATURE PUT INTO ORDER BY GOD. LIKE FOR INSTANCE, ENJOYING RAIN DURING RAINY SEASON OR SNOW DURING WINTER.
THE NATURAL PROCESS DO CONTROL PREGNANCY BUT YOU DIDN'T TAKE ANYTHING THAT IS FAKE OR ARTIFICIAL. MUCH MORE, THE NFP IS STILL OPEN TO LIFE. THERE ARE VERY RARE CASE THAT THE CHILD IS STILL POSSIBLE EVEN DURING INFERTILE PERIOD. SO, THERE IS STILL OPENNESS TO LIFE.
THE NFP ALSO REQUIRES SELF-CONTROL BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR PROPER DAYS FOR IT. UNLIKE THE CONDOMS AND THE PILLS THAT THEY ARE LIKE ANIMALS ENJOYING AND ENJOYING SEX ANYTIME, ANYDAY BECAUSE THERE IS A COUNTER DRUG AGAINST THE FORMATION OF LIFE.
[But it is still birth control.]
IT IS NOT. IT IS RATHER A SPECIAL PRIVILEGE THAT MARRIED COUPLES CAN ENJOY AND AVAIL WITHOUT TAKING IN ANY DRUGS OR RUBBER BUT IT IS STILL OPEN TO LIFE.
IF YOU OPEN YOUR AIRCON TO GET COLDER THAT'S NICE BUT SINCE IT IS ARTIFICIAL YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THE CONSEQUENCE... HIGHER ELECTRIC BILL. BUT IF YOU OPEN YOUR WINDOW AND LET THE AIR COMES IN THEN YOU WILL NOT PAY ANYTHING FOR IT BECAUSE IT IS NATURALLY FREE. IT IS A PRIVILEGE FROM GOD.
[The end is still the curtailment of birth.]
IF IN YOUR HEART YOU ARE USING THE NFP ONLY FOR BIRTH CONTROL THEN IT BECOMES AS SUCH A PURELY BIRTH CONTROL METHOD. BUT THE NFP IS STILL DIFFERENT FROM PILLS BECAUSE IT HAS NO ARTIFICIALITY AND THERE IS LIMIT IN IT. IT CANNOT BE AVAILED WHENEVER YOU WANT. THE COUPLE MUST TAME THEIR PASSIONS STILL DURING FERTILE DAYS. IT WILL TEACH THE MARRIED COUPLE - SELF CONTROL, PATIENCE AND ABSTINENCE.
IT IS HUMANIZING AND NOT ANIMALISTIC LIKE THE ARTIFICIAL ONES.
We can therefore conclude that although the means is natural but the purpose is still anti LIFE. Kindly clarify po, Father.
[We can therefore conclude that although the means is natural but the purpose is still anti LIFE. Kindly clarify po, Father.]
ReplyDeleteIF THE PURPOSE IS PURELY FOR BIRTH CONTROL IT IS WRONG.
THE NFP IS OPEN TO LIFE, THE COUPLES ARE FREE TO LOVE EACH OTHER WITHOUT ARTIFICIALITY AND THEY ARE SIMPLY ENJOYING THE PRIVILEGE GIVEN BY GOD WHILE REMAINING OPEN TO LIFE IF EVER GOD WILLS IT TO BE SO.
[Even Pope Benedict XVI acknowledges that there was a "hermeneutic of rupture" that happened in some circles of the Church.]
ReplyDeleteHERMENEUTIC OF RUPTURE IS DIFFERENT FROM SAYING THAT VATICAN II IS TEACHING ERRORS AND HERESIES. IT SPEAKS OF PASTORAL PROBLEM AND NOT DOCTRINAL VIOLATIONS OR THE CHURCH SUCCUMBING TO ERRORS.
THE POPE SIMPLY PRESENTS THE PROBLEMS OF THE CHURCH. OF COURSE, IT IS COMMON IN ALL ERA FOR THE CHURCH TO BE CONFRONTED BY PROBLEMS. BUT SHE NEVER FELL INTO DOCTRINAL ERROR. NEVER EVER.
STOP IMPOSING YOUR SSPX HALLUCINATIONS ON THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
[Paul VI even says that "the smoke of Satan has entered the Church." These are not my words. They're from the Popes.]
POPE PAUL VI WAS REFERRING TO LEFEBVRE WHO KEPT ON ATTACKING, MALIGNING HIM AND ARCH. BUGNINI. IT WAS LEFEBVRE'S LUCIFERIAN REBELLION THAT HURT POPE PAUL VI, OF BLESSED MEMORY, MOST.
YOU ARE WITH THE DEVIL AND WE ARE WITH THE ROCK THAT IS PETROS.
Salamat sa iyong Sharing anonymous. Tignan mo talagang ang Santa Iglesia ang nag prepreserva ng Latin sa buong mundo.
ReplyDeleteYES. GUSTO KO SI NOYNOY. IBINOTO KO SIYA. SUBALIT HINDI KO IBINOTO ANG RH BILL. DAHIL HALOS LAHAT NG CANDIDATES AY PRO RH BILL. SINONG PIPILIIN KO?
ReplyDelete[the Holy Catholic Church is ONE, thus using only one language in public ceremony, the use of Latin Language keeps the Church ONE.. but the use of vernacular languages, makes the church divided.]
ReplyDeleteTHIS IS HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE. THE CHURCH IS ONE BECAUSE OF ONE GOD, ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM AND ONE CHURCH BUT NOT BY ONE LANGUAGE. FROM EARLY CHURCH THE LANGUAGE OF THE CHURCH IS MULTIPLE. AS I'VE SAID IF GOD WANTED TO MAKE ONE LANGUAGE ESSENTIAL TO THE LIFE OF THE CHURCH THE HOLY SPIRIT SHOULD HAVE GIVEN IT AS A GIFT ON PENTECOST. INSTEAD, THE HOLY SPIRIT PRESERVED THE LANGUAGE OF EACH RACE.
[i cannot attend a russian novus ordo mass because i cannot understand, i cannot attend Chinese Novus Ordo Mass because i dont understand. THus using vernacular language is dividing the Church.]
THERE ARE VERY FEW TOURISTS AMONG CATHOLICS BUT HUDREDS OF MILLIONS ARE STAYING IN THEIR OWN HOMETOWN SPEAKING IN THEIR DIALECTS AND ENJOYING THE VERNACULAR LANGUAGES. FAILURE TO UNDERSTAND THE LANGUAGE IN RUSSIA IS MINIMAL THAN FOR 99.99% OF CATHOLICS WHO DOES NOT UNDERSTAND INSTINCTIVELY THE LITURGY OF THE CHURCH.
[Whereas, I attend Latin Mass in Russia, I can understand, Or attend Latin Mass in all parts of the World, I can understand. Becauase the Church is ONE...with ONE UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE, i like people who are criticizing the Old Latin Mass as BORING....]
THE LATIN MASS IS VERY BEAUTIFUL BUT WE CANNOT DENY THE FACT THAT THERE ARE MANY ALSO WHO DON'T LIKE IT. WHEN THE LATIN WAS REMOVED THERE WERE SOME OPPOSITIONS BUT TRY TO REMOVE THE VERNACULAR NOW AND THERE WILL BE WIDESPREAD PROTESTS.
The post is very troublesome in its denigration of Latin Masses pre-V2, even by defenders of Latin. That people fall short of doing something well is not an excuse for abandoning it. If that is the standard, then it should be applied equally to the Novus Ordo. Look at the abuses infractions in the Novus Ordo now.
ReplyDeleteThere are pros and cons to both Latin and vernacular. Of course, Latin has not been the common language for centuries but is retained precisely because it is not subject to the whims of fads. The Church has been ruptured before due to a single mistranslation or misunderstanding in its definitions. Look at the case of the English translations of ICEL.
People should be adults and if they cannot understand something, they should seek knowledge instead of lambasting their ignorance. It is sad to hear somebody say they do not understand the kyrie.
The dismal ignorance and the support for RH Bill in a catholic majority country is proof that vernacular is not the panacea extolled. If things are so great in vernacular world of worship, why the widespread ignorance?
Litury is confused with catechesis.Understanding is done by catechesis. In many parishes and dioceses, there is a collapse of catechesis after the change to vernacular in the liturgy. Maybe the idea is that understanding the liturgy makes the faith self-evident.
The irony is that the draconian imposition of Novus Ordo is the last gasp for the Tridentine style of ruling the church. A way that is much maligned by liberals. Never again will the entire church just accept the whims of a Bugnini. SP did not at all impose removing N.O., why make wild conjectures of mass rebellion. Prepare for the new English translation and the hysteria of liberals.
[The post is very troublesome in its denigration of Latin Masses pre-V2,]
ReplyDeleteEXCUSE ME. IT IS NOT THE LATIN MASSES THAT IS DEGRADED HERE BUT THE ILLICIT SSPX REBELS. DON'T EQUATE THAT GROUP WITH THE LATIN MASS. THEY DO NOT OWN THE LATIN MASS. THEY ARE ONLY USING IT FOR THEIR REBELLION AGAINST THE CHURCH.
[ even by defenders of Latin.]
THE SSPX DOES NOT DEFEND LATIN. IT ONLY USES IT TO FEED ITS REBELLION.
[ That people fall short of doing something well is not an excuse for abandoning it.]
IT IS NOT JUST THE PEOPLE THAT FALL SHORT. THE LATIN LANGUAGE ALREADY FELL SHORT FOR THE LIFE OF THE PEOPLE. IT IS NO LONGER USE IN ACADEME, IN LITERATURE AND IN SCIENCES EXCEPT AMONG THOSE SPECIALIZING IN THAT PARTICULAR LANGUAGE. THUS, IT IS NO LONGER THE LIVING LANGUAGE THAT THE CHURCH HAD CHOSEN IN FAVOR OF GREEK IN THE 4TH CENTURY. AS IT WAS CHOSEN IN FAVOR OF GREEK, IT CAN ALSO BE REPLACED BY ANOTHER ONCE THE LANGUAGE IS NO LONGER UNDERSTANDABLE TO THE PEOPLE.
[ If that is the standard, then it should be applied equally to the Novus Ordo.]
THAT IS AN STANDARD BUT NOT THE ONLY STANDARD. IN LATIN THE LANGUAGE ITSELF DIED DOWN. ITS NOT THE FAULT OF THE PEOPLE. IT IS THE NATURAL WEAKNESS OF THE LANGUAGE THAT OUTLIVED ITS USEFULNESS.
THE VERNACULAR IS THE NEW 'VULGATE' OF THE PEOPLE THEN IT MUST BE USED IN THE LITURGY. THERE IS NO DOGMA IN THE CHURCH THAT SAYS THE HOLY MASS MUST BE CELEBRATED IN ONE LANGUAGE ALONE PERPETUALLY. THE USE OF LATIN IS NOT A DOGMA, BUT A PASTORAL NECESSITY... NOW, THAT NECESSITY IS GOD. THE NECESSITY CHANGED IN FAVOR OF THE VERNACULAR.
THE SSPX KEEPS ON SAYING THAT VATICAN II IS PASTORAL. WELL, THE USE OF LATIN IS ALSO PASTORAL.
[Look at the abuses infractions in the Novus Ordo now.]
ReplyDeleteEXCUSE ME. YOU ARE USING THAT SO CALLED ABUSES IN NOVUS ORDO AS IF THE ABUSES ARE NOT PRESENT IN THE PAST.
THE LITURGICAL ABUSES NOW IS NO MORE THAN THE LITURGICAL ABUSES DURING THE TIME OF THE APOSTLES WHEN PEOPLE WERE DYING DUE TO THEIR SINS AGAINST THE HOLY EUCHARIST AS REPORTED BY ST. PAUL IN 1 CORINTHIANS 11. BEFORE AND AFTER THE COUNCIL OF TRENT THE CHURCH WAS ALSO BESIEGED BY CANONICAL AND LITURGICAL ABUSES. THE ABUSES CONFRONTED BY TRENT IS MUCH TERRIBLE IN DEGREE THAN THOSE WE ARE CONFRONTING TODAY.
DURING THE PRE-VATICAN II THERE WERE ABUSES ALSO. WHAT IS LACKING IS THE TECHNOLOGY THAT RECORDS AND SENDS THESE ABUSES IN THE INTERNET OR TELEVISION FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO SEE.
[There are pros and cons to both Latin and vernacular.]
OBVIOUSLY, AS THE DEBATES DURING THE VATICAN II SHOWED THE PROS IN FAVOR OF VERNACULAR IS MORE THAN THE CONS AND THE CONS IN USING THE LATIN ALONE IS GREATER THAN THE PROS.
[Of course, Latin has not been the common language for centuries but is retained precisely because it is not subject to the whims of fads.]
LANGUAGE IS NOT THE WHIMS OF FADS. IT IS A PRODUCT OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF CULTURE. THE CHURCH USUS THE LANGUAGE UNDERSTANDABLE TO PEOPLE NOT THE ONE THAT IS ONLY THE LEARNED AND THE HOLY SPIRIT COULD UNDERSTAND.
DURING THE PENTECOST THE SPIRIT OF GOD RESPECTED THE LANGUAGE OF PEOPLE FROM VARIOUS PLACES BY MAKING EACH ONE OF THEM UNDERSTAND THE PREACHING OF THE APOSTLES IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE. AND THE SAME SPIRIT DIDN'T DECREE THAT LATIN WILL BE THE ONLY LANGUAGE TO BE USED FOR THE DIVINE LITURGY. O NO, NO, NO...
LATIN WAS USED BY THE CHURCH WHEN IT WAS THE 'VULGATE'... THE 'VULGAR' OR COMMON LANGUAGE OF THE PEOPLE. WHEN IT WAS NO LONGER COMMON THE CHURCH WISELY REPLACED IT.
TO CONTINUOUSLY USE LATIN IS TO FALLOW THE WHIMS AND CAPRICES OF THE FEW ROMANTICS WHO ARE DREAMERS OF THE PAST AND NOT VISIONARY FOR THE FUTURE. PEOPLE WITH STAGNANT MIND AND COLD HEART FOR THE WARM REALITY THAT LATIN IS DEAD.
[The Church has been ruptured before due to a single mistranslation or misunderstanding in its definitions.]
THE CHURCH IS NEVER BEEN RUPTURED. THE CHURCH IS THE CHURCH, ALWAYS AND EVERY WHERE. PROBLEM WITH TRANSLATION FROM TIME TO TIME DOES NOT IN ANY WAY DIMINISH THE CHURCH AND DEFINITELY THERE WAS NO RUPTURE.
[Look at the case of the English translations of ICEL.]
ReplyDeleteWHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE TRANSLATIONS OF ICEL? IS THERE ANY HERESY WITH IT? AND MUCH MORE, IT MAY NOT BE A PERFECT TRANSLATION BUT IT IS A VERY BEAUTIFUL AND ENRICHING TRANSLATIONS.
[People should be adults and if they cannot understand something, they should seek knowledge instead of lambasting their ignorance.]
IT SOUNDS BEAUTIFUL BUT BASICALLY DEFECTIVE.
IF THE LORD JESUS DIDN'T IMPOSE ARAMAIC OR HEBREW ON THE APOSTLES WHY DO YOU IMPOSE LATIN ON US? THE APOSTLES CELEBRATED THE MASS AND WROTE AND PREACHED IN GREEK. THE LATER ON POPE ST. DAMASUS CHANGED IT TO LATIN WITHOUT DETRIMENT TO GREEK RITE AND OTHER ORITENTAL RITES. HOW COME THE USE OF VERNACULAR IS SUDDENLY BECOMING EVIL TODAY?
THE ROOTS OF EVIL TODAY IS NOT THE NOVUS ORDO AND THE VERNACULAR BUT SIN. AND THE ROOT OF HOLINESS IN PRE-VATICAN II LITURGY IS NOT LATIN BUT THE GRACE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WHICH IS PRESENT STILL TODAY. THE GRACE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT EXCLUSIVE IN THE LATIN LANGUAGE. TO CLAIM OTHERWISE IS A MANIFESTATION OF SUBLIME LIES AND STUPIDITY.
[It is sad to hear somebody say they do not understand the kyrie.]
OF COURSE, THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE KYRIE. EVEN IF THEY KNOW ITS TRANSLATION IT IS ONLY KNOWING THE TRANSLATION BUT NOT KNOWING IT INSTINCTIVELY. FOR AN AMERICAN TO SING 'LORD, HAVE MERCY' OR FOR A FILIPINO TO SING 'PANGINOON, MAAWA KA' IS NOT JUST PRAYING THROUGH TRANSLATIONS BUT DIRECT EXPRESSION OF WHAT IS IN YOUR HEART AND MIND AND VERY BEING. THAT IS WHY THE HOLY SPIRIT COMMUNICATES DIRECTLY THROUGH THE NATIVE LANGUAGE OF THE AUDIENCE IN PENTECOST. AS WE ALL KNOW, THE PENTECOST IS THE CHURCH IN ITS SEMINAL FORM OR RATHER THE CHURCH IN HER INFANCY.
[The dismal ignorance and the support for RH Bill in a catholic majority country is proof that vernacular is not the panacea extolled.]
ReplyDeleteNOT SO. THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE DEFENDING THE CHURCH AGAINST THE RH BILL. THE CATHOLIC APOLOGISTS INCLUDING MY PERSON AND THIS BLOG AND THE MEMBERS OF DEFENSORES FIDEI AND CATHOLIC FAITH DEFENDERS WHO ARE 99% LAY ARE DEFENDING THE CHURCH. WE NEVER HEARD ANY OF THE SSPX PRIESTS OR SUPPORTERS DEFENDING THE CHURCH IN PUBLIC FORUM. THEY SIMPLY JOIN THE ENEMIES. THE HOMOSEXUALS AND FEMMINISTS ATTACK THE CHURCH AND THE POPE ON RH BILL, WHILE THE SSPX SUPPORTERS ATTACK THE CHURCH AND THE POPE ON MATTERS OF LITURGY. SEE, YOU ARE NOT WITH THE CHURCH AND THE POPE. YOU BELONG TO THE OTHER SIDE. YOU ARE ONE WITH OUR ENEMIES.
I STILL HAVE TO SEE AN SSPX LAY PERSON TO GO TO THE MEDIA EXPLAINING THE MEANING OF FREEDOM AND CONSCIENCE IN LATIN IN ORDER TO DEBUNK THE RH BILL. SHOW ME ANY VIDEO. ON MY PART, I'VE BEEN ON SEVERAL SEMINARS, RADIO SHOWS ALREADY TOGETHER WITH LAY CATHOLICS DEFENDING THE CHURCH AGAINST THE RH BILL.
DO NOT PROJECT UNTO US YOUR OWN USELESSNESS AND INABILITY. IF YOU CANNOT TRUST THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH ON LITURGY THEN YOU CANNOT TRUST HER ON MORAL ISSUES. TO BE TRAITOR IN LITURGY IS TO BE TRAITOR ON MORALS AND ON DOGMA AND ON ALL ASPECTS OF CHURCH LIFE INCLUDING THE CANON LAW.
[If things are so great in vernacular world of worship, why the widespread ignorance?]
THE CATHOLICS DURING THE PRE-VATICAN II ARE MORE IGNORANT. GATHER TOGETHER THE NUMBER OF BOOKS WRITTEN BY LAY DURING THE PRE-VATICAN II? GET THE NAMES OF LAY PREACHERS AND TEACHER OF FAITH BEFORE? ALMOST NONE. NOW, THE CATHOLIC RADIOS, TV's, NEWSPAPERS ARE MOSTLY RUN, ADMINISTERED AND MANNED BY LAY PEOPLE. AFTER VATICAN II LAY CATHOLIC APOLOGISTS ROSE IN PROMINENCE AND THEY WERE ABLE TO CONVERNT THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF CONVERTS YEAR AFTER YEAR IN U.S. ALONE. TO THE POINT THAT EVERY YEAR MORE THAN 350,000 ADULT CONVERSIONS ARE HAPPENING IN THE U.S.
GO TO FACEBOOK, GO TO RELIGIOUS BLOGS. THE APOLOGISTS AND CATHOLIC BLOGGERS ARE LAY PEOPLE. THEY ARE DEFENDING THE CHURCH ON RH BILL AND ON DOGMATIC MATTERS. ONE OF THEIR ENEMIES ARE THE SSPX DIE-HARDS WHO KNOW NOTHING EXCEPT ATTACKING THE POPE, THE NOVUS ORDO AND VATICAN II. THEY ARE BUNCH OF USELESS AND TREACHEROUS PEOPLE.
[Litury is confused with catechesis.]
THERE IS NO CONFUSION. THERE IS ONLY ESSENTIAL UNITY AND HARMONY BETWEEN THE TWO. IN THE LATIN MASS, SO MUCH SILENCE DILUTES THE KERYGMATIC NATURE OF THE LITURGY.
[Understanding is done by catechesis.]
SO, YOU ARE ADMITTING NOW THAT IT IS OK TO BE IGNORANT DURING THE MASS AS LONG AS THE EXPLANATION WILL BE GIVEN THROUGH CATECHESIS. HOW DO YOU GIVE THEM CATECHESIS? SHALL YOU CALL THE SAME NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ATTENDED YOUR SUNDAY MASS THE FOLLOWING DAY TO HEAR CATECHESIS?
WHEN JESUS DID THE LAST SUPPER, IT WAS LITURGICAL AND AT THE SAME TIME CATECHETICAL. IT WAS SPIRITUAL AND KERYGMATIC AT THE SAME TIME. YOU ARE CREATING A BIFURCATION ON SOMETHING THAT IS ESSENTIALLY UNITED.
[In many parishes and dioceses, there is a collapse of catechesis after the change to vernacular in the liturgy.]
ReplyDeleteO NO, NO, NO... ACTUALLY THERE IS A MORE ACTIVE CATECHESIS NOW THAN BEFORE. BECAUSE THE SIMPLE PEOPLE ARE SINGING CATHOLIC SONGS USED IN THE MASS EVEN AT HOME AND THEY SERVE AS CATECHESIS. THUS, THE POPULARITY OF 'ANG PANGINOON ANG AKING PASTOL' 'HINDI KITA MALILIMUTAN' 'PURIHIN ANG PANGINOON' WHICH PEOPLE SING FROM THE HEART.
[Maybe the idea is that understanding the liturgy makes the faith self-evident.]
THE IDEA IS THAT UNDERSTANDING THE LITURGY MAKES THE FAITH BETTER UNDERSTOOD BY THE PEOPLE. WHETHER THE MASS IS IN LATIN OR VERNACULAR THERE WILL BE HYPCRISY AMONG THE FAITHFUL. THERE ARE IDIOTS AMONG TLM FOLLOWERS AND ALSO IN NOVUS ORDO. BUT IN NOVUS ORDO IT IS UNDERSTOOD WHILE IN TLM IT IS NOT.
[The irony is that the draconian imposition of Novus Ordo is the last gasp for the Tridentine style of ruling the church.]
THERE IS NO DRACONIAN IMPOSITION OF NOVUS ORDO. THERE IS ONLY THE PONTIFICAL COMMAND FOR ITS UNIVERSAL USE. YOUR LANGUAGE IS MORE PROPER FOR 'DRAGONS' NOT FOR CATHOLICS.
WELL, THE LAST GASP FOR THE TRIDENTINE STYLE OF RULING THE CHURCH IS BROUGHT ABOUT BY THE VATICAN STYLE OF RULING THE CHURCH. THE TRIDENTINE SYTLE BROUGHT AN END TO THE LATERAN STYLE AND THE LATERAN SYTLE BROUGHT AN END TO THE CONSTANTINOPOLITAN STYLE. AND THE CONSTANTINOPOLITAN STYLE BROUGHT AN END TO THE CHALCEDONIAN STYLE.
THESE STYLES ARE NOT DOGMAS. THEY ARE PASTORAL. THEY ARE BOUND TO CHANGE. IF YOU WANT TO REMAIN IN THE TRIDENTINE STYLE THEN JOIN THE 'OLD CATHOLICS'. THE PROCESS OF CHANGE FROM TRIDENTINE TO VATICAN STYLE CAME WITH THE FIRST VATICAN ECUMENICAL COUNCIL.
[ A way that is much maligned by liberals.]
THE LIBERALS MALIGNED THE AUTHORITY OF THE CHURCH AND OF THE POPE. EXACTLY THE MANNER OF LEFEBVRE AND HIS COHORTS. THAT IS WHY YOU ARE MORE IN COMMON WITH THEM. THE CHURCH AND THE POPE IS OPPOSED BY THE PRO-RH BILL AND YOU ARE DOING THE SAME ON THE LITURGICAL LEVEL. THE SAME DEMON THAT POSSESSED THESE LIBERALS IS THE SAME DEMON THAT IS POSSESSING YOUR MIND.
[ Never again will the entire church just accept the whims of a Bugnini.]
BUGNINI SIMPLY FOLLOWS THE DIRECTIVE OF POPE PAUL VI.
99.99% OF THE CHURCH RESPECTED THE DECISION OF THE POPE THROUGH BUGNINI ONLY VERY FEW FOLLOWED THE REBELLION OF THAT WACKY OLD FOOL NAMED LEFEBVRE IN DISOBEYING THE POPE. CARDINALS OTTAVIANI, SIRI AND OTHERS REFUSED TO JOIN THE REBELLION OF LEFEBVRE.
YOU CANNOT SPEAK FOR THE ENTIRE CHURCH BECAUSE THE ENTIRE CHURCH HAS ALREADY ACCEPTED THE USE OF THE NOVUS ORDO. FROM TIME TO TIME THERE WILL BE FEW THOUSANDS WHO PREFER LATIN OVER VERNACULAR. BUT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS LOVE THE USE OF THE VERNACULAR.
[SP did not at all impose removing N.O., why make wild conjectures of mass rebellion.]
I DO NOT MAKE WILD CONJECTURES OF MASS REBELLION. BECAUSE THE FOLLOWERS OF SSPX ARE SURELY NOT ON THE LEVEL OF A 'MASS' OR A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE. THEY ARE SO FEW. YET SO NOISY. AND INDEED THEY ARE IN REBELLION. NOT MASS REBELLION BUT SIMPLY REBELLION. LITURGICAL REBELLION.
[Prepare for the new English translation and the hysteria of liberals.]
THE LIBERALS CAN CRY THEIR HEARTS OUT BUT THE NEW TRANSLATIONS SHALL BE IMPLEMENTED WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.
ON THE PART OF THE SSPX, THE VERNACULAR SHALL BE IN USE WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.
This fat guy is a resurrected Martin Luther.... di mo lang alam pero Martin Luther ka kung mag isip regarding english usage... mag research ka nga... latin still not used in sciences? even law still use latin, scientific names are in latin... latin is the perfect language for preservation of meaning because latin by its nature as language do not change in meaning in perpetuity.
ReplyDeleteAs Martin Luther wants a reformed Liturgy, he wanted it to be in vernacular, he wanted the priest to face the people because he thinks that the mass is a banquet (which is true) but he dont believe that the mass is a sacrifice thus facing the people is best to use according to him. Everything that Martin Luther wanted in his reformed liturgy, it was all fulfilled in Vatican II. Martin Luther is alive today. He will say "I am right!" congratulations Abe Luther.
[This fat guy is a resurrected Martin Luther....]
ReplyDeleteTHIS HIDING DEMON IS HERETICAL AND AN IDIOT.
[di mo lang alam pero Martin Luther ka kung mag isip regarding english usage...]
REALLY? HA, HA, HA... MARTIN LUTHER USED GERMAN NOT ENGLISH. STOP THROWING AT US YOUR STUPIDITY.
[mag research ka nga...]
IT IS YOU WHO MUST DO YOUR RESEARCH. YOU ARE AS STUPID AS LEFEBVRE, A WACKY OLD FOOL.
[latin still not used in sciences?]
YES. NOT BECAUSE THERE ARE FEW LATIN TERMS USED YOU CAN ALREADY CLAIM THAT LATIN IS BEING USED IN SCIENCES. IS LATIN REQUIRED FOR ENGINEERING? TO BE A MEDICAL DOCTOR? TO BE A CHEMIST? NO, NO, NO... NO MORE.
[even law still use latin, scientific names are in latin...]
THEY ARE USING FEW LATIN WORDS AND PHRASES BUT NOT THE LANGUAGE ITSELF WHICH IS DEAD, DEAD AS DOUBLE DEAD MEAT.
I HAVE MANY LAWYER FRIENDS. WE HAVE A COLLEGE OF LAW AND THE STUDENTS ARE NOT SPEAKING LATIN AS WELL AS THE PROFESSORS. THEY ONLY USE LATIN WORDS OR TERMS FROM TIME TO TIME WITH AMERICAN SLANG PRONUNCIATION. HA, HA, HA...
YOU ARE FREE TO ENJOY YOUR DELUSIONS.
[latin is the perfect language for preservation of meaning because latin by its nature as language do not change in meaning in perpetuity.]
NO LANGUAGE IS PERFECT. THE HOLY SPIRIT CHOSE HEBREW AND GREEK FOR THE HOLY WORD OF GOD NOT LATIN. DON'T BE PRETENTIOUS. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT AS STUPID AS YOU TO CLAIM SUCH RIDICULOUS THING.
[As Martin Luther wants a reformed Liturgy, he wanted it to be in vernacular,]
IT WAS THE LORD JESUS WHO SPOKE IN THE VERNACULAR. AND IT WAS THE APOSTLES WHO CHOSE GREEK RATHER THAN HEBREW AND IT WAS POPE DAMASUS I WHO CHOSE LATIN OVER GREEK AND IT WAS THE ECUMENICAL COUNCIL THAT ALLOWED THE VERNACULAR.
LONG BEFORE LUTHER THE CHURCH ALREADY USED THE VERNACULAR. ASK STS. CYRIL AND METHODIUS WHO USED THE SLAVONIC LANGUAGE, LETTERS AND ALPHABET FOR THE LITURGY AND WORSHIP OF THE SLAVS.
[he wanted the priest to face the people because he thinks that the mass is a banquet (which is true) but he dont believe that the mass is a sacrifice thus facing the people is best to use according to him.]
THE NOVUS ORDO CATEGORICALLY AND SPECIFICALLY STRESSED THAT THE MASS IS A HOLY AND LIVING SACRIFICE.
NOT ALL SACRIFICE ARE AD ORIENTEM. WHEN JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS WAS HE FACING THE PEOPLE OR WITH HIS BACK ON THE PEOPLE? HE WAS FACING THE PEOPLE AND THE PEOPLE WERE LOOKING AT HIM... NOT ON HIS BACK.
[Everything that Martin Luther wanted in his reformed liturgy, it was all fulfilled in Vatican II.]
ALL THAT CHRIST DID AND THE APOSTLES DID AND THE HOLY SPIRIT DID AT PENTECOST ARE BEING GIVEN ATTENTION BY THE VATICAN II. THE HOLY SPIRIT RESPECTED ALL LANGUAGE OF THE AUDIENCE AT PENTECOST AND SO THE CHURCH RESPECTS ALL LANGUAGE.
IT IS NEVER A DOGMA OF THE CHURCH TO USE ONE LANGUAGE ONLY.
[Martin Luther is alive today. He will say "I am right!" congratulations Abe Luther.]
HA, HA, HA... YOU SPEAK AS IF YOU ARE ANGRY AT LUTHER. YOU ARE BOTH POSSESSED BY THE SAME DEMON OF REBELLION AGAINST THE CHURCH AND HER AUTHORITY. THE PROTESTANTS ARE KNOWN FOR THEIR PROTESTS AND REBELLION AS YOU ARE DOING AGAINST THE BISHOPS AND THE POPE.
REVEAL YOUR IDENTITY AND LET ME SEE HOW STRONG YOU ARE WITH THE PROTESTANTS. I DEBATE PROTESTANTS: PASTORS AND APOLOGISTS, ON DAILY BASIS. AND YOU... YOU ARE DOING NOTHING. YOU ARE AIMING YOUR GUNS ON THE POPES AND BISHOPS INSTEAD. YOU ARE SCRATCHING YOUR BALLS THINKING OF LATIN WHILE I AM SPENDING HOURS AND HOURS DEBATING THE PROTESTANTS, THE BORN AGAIN AND THE OTHER ANTI-CATHOLIC. HA, HA, HA...
THAT IS THE REASON WHY YOU ARE HIDING. YOU ARE ASHAMED. YOU ARE A COWARD.
I AM NOT HIDING. I AM NOT AFRAID BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN SEE FOR THEMSELVES THAT THE GREATEST BULK OF MY WORKS HERE ARE APOLOGETICS AGAINST THE PROTESTANTS AND THE ANTI-CATHOLICS. YOU ARE A USELESS CATHOLIC - TRAITOR AND REBEL.
Father, ano po ang masasabi niyo sa 1965 missal? di po ba yan po yung halos kapareho ng TLM na isinalin sa vernacular tapos may mga kaunitng nabago tulad ng paggamit ng "Katawan ni Cristo" sa komunyon at ang pagtanggal ng Last gospel? Salamat po.
ReplyDeleteANG 1965 MISSAL AY NAGTATAGLAY NG RITE OF THE HOLY MASS AS APPROVED BY THE SERVANT OF GOD POPE PAUL VI. ANG MISANG ITO AY SIMPLIFIED VERSION NG TLM.
ReplyDeleteMAGANDA ANG PAULINE MASS DAHIL ITO AY NASA VERNACULAR AT NAPAKA SIMPLE DAHIL TINANGGAL ANG MGA ELEMENTO NA IDINAGDAG SA MISA THROUGH THE COURSE OF THE CENTURIES NA HINDI NAMAN TALAGA ESSENTIAL SA CELEBRATION NG HOLY MASS. MERON DING DINAGDAG TULAD NG CONCELEBRATION, ANG RESPONSORIAL PSALM, ANG SECOND READING KAPAG SUNDAYS AND SOLEMNITIES AT IBA PA. SUBALIT ANG MGA IDINAGDAG AY GALING LAHAT SA CATHOLIC AND BIBLICAL TRADITION.
ANG TLM AT ANG PAULINE MASS AY PAREHONG VALID MASS NG LATIN RITE. THEY ARE THE EXTRAORDINARY AND ORDINARY FORM NG ATING ROMAN RITE.