Cardinals and Bishops gathered around the Tomb of St. Peter and his Successor the Pope.
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A Problem with Vatican II's Lumen Gentium:
Concerning the Church itself, there is one word that in this text , which is perhaps the most harmful word in the whole Council documents.
In the Latin text, it is: "Ecclesia Dei subsistit in Ecclesia Catholica" #8. This means "the Church of God subsists or takes its concrete form, is realised 'in the Catholic Church'.
The truth of the matter is that. The whole truth is: 'Ecclesia Dei est Ecclesia Catholica - the Church of God is the Catholic Church'. If you say that the Church of God subsists in the Catholic Church, you mean that there are two different entities: the Church of God and the Catholic Church and it is quite by chance that these two entities come together.
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[A Problem with Vatican II's Lumen Gentium:]
THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM OF VATICAN II BUT YOUR OWN CREATED PROBLEM. THE PROBLEM IS NOT IN VATICAN II DOCUMENTS BUT IN YOUR MIND.
[Concerning the Church itself, there is one word that in this text , which is perhaps the most harmful word in the whole Council documents.]
IT IS YOUR MALICIOUS MIND THAT CREATES THE HARM IN YOUR FAITH NOT THE DOCUMENT OF VATICAN II.
[In the Latin text, it is: "Ecclesia Dei subsistit in Ecclesia Catholica" #8. This means "the Church of God subsists or takes its concrete form, is realised 'in the Catholic Church'.]
THAT IS CORRECT. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. IT IS A THEOLOGICAL PRESENTATION OF THE FACT THAT THE CHURCH IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
[The truth of the matter is that. The whole truth is: 'Ecclesia Dei est Ecclesia Catholica - the Church of God is the Catholic Church'.]
THAT IS EXACTLY THE CORRECT MEANING OF THE VATICAN II TEXT. IT PROCLAIMS THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE ONE AND TRUE CHURCH. THE CHURCH IS TOTALLY PRESENT IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
OF COURSE, VATICAN II EMPLOYED A THEOLOGICAL MANNER OF PRESENTATION RATHER THAN THE SIMPLE SLOGAN MANNER THAT YOU ARE PROPOSING WHICH IS VERY CHEAP.
FOR INSTANCE, THE ECUMENICAL COUNCIL OF NICAEA DIDN'T JUST SIMPLY STATE: 'JESUS IS GOD' BUT IT EMPLOYED 'HOMOOUSIOS' WITH THE FATHER OR IN ENGLISH 'CONSUBSTANTIAL WITH THE FATHER'. LOOK AT THAT. WHY NOT SIMPLY SAY 'JESUS IS GOD'? WHY DID THEY USE A PHILOSOPHICAL TERM THAT ONLY SCHOLASTIC PHILOSOPHERS AND THEOLOGIANS CAN FULLY GRASP? SEE WHAT I MEAN?
NOW, IF THERE IS ONE WHO IS CRAZY AND START QUESTIONING IT: "IF JESUS IS CONSUBSTANTIAL WITH THE FATHER WHAT IS THE MEANING OF 'CON'? DOES IT MEAN THAT THE SUBSTANCE OF JESUS IS CONTRARY TO THE SUBSTANCE OF THE FATHER?" NOW, WE ALL KNOW THAT THE INTERPRETATION IS FAULTY AND INCORRECT. HOW? BY FOLLOWING THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETATION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. NOT OUR OWN PERSONAL INTERPRETATION.
HOW ABOUT TRANSUBSTANTATION? IS IT FREE FROM WRONG INTERPRETATION? NO! ONE CAN ARGUE THAT IT IS WRONG. WHY? BECAUSE THE WORD 'TRANS' COULD MEAN 'TRANSFER'. THAT THE SUBSTANCE OF DIVINITY OF JESUS TRANSFERS ONLY TO THE BREAD.
HOW ABOUT THEOTOKOS? I HAVE ENCOUNTERED A PERSON WHO CLAIMS THAT MARY IS NOT MOTHER OF GOD. WHY? BECAUSE THEOTOKOS SIMPLY MEANS 'GOD BEARER'.
THE SAME WITH SUBSISTIT. IF YOU WANT TO DISTORT ITS MEANING IT IS YOUR FAULT BUT FOR US CATHOLICS IT MEANS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE CHURCH OF GOD.
[If you say that the Church of God subsists in the Catholic Church, you mean that there are two different entities: the Church of God and the Catholic Church and it is quite by chance that these two entities come together.]
WE DO NOT MEAN THAT. SUCH INTERPRETATION IS CONCOCTED BY YOUR MIND PREGNANT WITH MALICE. IT IS JUST THE LIES INVENTED BY THE SSPX AND THE SEDEVACANTISTS.
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![ST. JEROME EMILIANI [1486-1537]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6dKQTchkJaA/R0lo013dyBI/AAAAAAAAB_4/XzUAPDESwwQ/s1600/St.+Jerome+in+prayer,+small_1.jpg)
ANONYMOUS:
ReplyDelete"Ecclesia Dei subsistit in Ecclesia Catholica" #8. This means "the Church of God subsists or takes its concrete form, is realised 'in the Catholic Church"
MANNY CRUZ:
Anonymous interprets this badly. He says that this created two Churches. The Catholic Church and the Church of God. That's very wrong!
What he fails to realize is that the statement "Ecclesia Dei subsistit in Ecclesia Catholica" is a very generous and inclusive description of the Church, for this inevitably would lead to the notion that the other ecclessial communities (protestants sects, etc) could establish themselves in a relationship with the Catholic Church, though in an imperfect manner or communion. The Catholic Church embodies what it means to be the Church of God, while the other "churches" could share this embodiment, though in an imperfect way. This is the state in which the Church, though fragmented as it stands because of the existence of various sects, still maintains its mystical unity as the mystical body of Christ.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH BRO. MANNY FOR BEAUTIFULLY EXPLAINING FURTHER THE MEANING OF 'SUBSISTS IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'. INDEED, THE CHURCH IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BUT WE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE ARE ELEMENTS OF THE TRUE CHURCH PRESENT IN OTHERS ALTHOUGH IMPERFECTLY. FOR INSTANCE, THE BIBLE. THE PROTESTANTS ALSO HAVE THE BIBLE. BUT THEY GOT IT FROM THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
ReplyDeleteWould this not also refer to Eastern Churches, who although are not in communion to Rome, are also legitimate churches based on their apostolic foundation?
ReplyDeleteThe Eastern Churches that are in Communion with the Successor of Peter, yes. But not those who are separated.
ReplyDeleteFather meron pong mukhang galit sa inyo.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/skpk1984
Simbahang Katoliko Pilipino Kristiyano Facebook Page.
Eto po nakalagay Father.
The true image of Christ here on earth (Sa isip, sa salita at sa gawa)
Heretic Mr. Abe Arganiosa ===VERSUS=== Vatican II, Lumen Gentium
"IF YOU ARE TRULY WITNESSES OF CHRIST YOU WILL BE IN UNION WITH THE SEE OF PETER ESTABLISHED BY JESUS. INSTEAD, YOU PREFER TO BE OUTSIDE THAT SEE AND THEREFORE YOU BELONG TO ITS ANTAGONIST - THE GATES OF HELL."
--Mr. Abe Arganiosa, November 20, 2011
====================VERSUS==================
“For several reasons the Church recognizes that it IS JOINED TO THOSE WHO, though baptized and so honoured with the Christian name, DO NOT PROFESS THE FAITH IN ITS ENTIRETY OR DO NOT PRESERVE COMMUNION UNDER THE SUCCESSOR OF ST. PETER."
-- Vatican II document, Lumen Gentium # 15
DEAR REY,
ReplyDeleteNEVER MIND HIM. THAT GUY BELONGS TO A SCHISMATIC GROUP. KAYA SIEMPRE GALIT SIYA SA ATIN. BALIW NA IYAN. GINAGAMIT ANG LUMEN GENTIUM E SIYA NGA ITONG HINDI SINUSUNOD ANG LUMEN GENTIUM DAHIL UMALIS SA ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. HA HA HA...
THE QUOTE FROM LUMEN GENTIUM IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM THE CONTEXT OF MY STATEMENT WHEREIN I AM REPRIMANDING THE ENEMIES OF THE FAITH WHO WERE ATTACKING THE CHURCH, THE POPE AND THE COUNCIL. LUMEN GENTIUM SPEAKS ABOUT WHAT IS COMMON BETWEEN US AND THAT OF THE SEPARATED BRETHREN. IT SHOWS THE ECUMENICAL PERSPECTIVE OF THE CHURCH AS REGARDS NON CATHOLICS WHICH WE ALSO DEFENDED HERE.
THAT GUY WHO WROTE THAT HAS NO RIGHT TO CALL ME HERETIC BY LUMEN GENTIUM STANDARD BECAUSE HE IS NOT A ROMAN CATHOLIC. LOOK AT THE COMMENTS. HE IS SO ANGRY AT US AS ROMANISTA. HE HE HE... SEE THE DECEPTION AND HYPOCRISY.