Pater Noster of Fredolin Lieber
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Dear Father,
Tanong lang po tungkol sa Nuvos Ordo at Traditional Latin Mass.During the Lords Prayer,ang pag holding hands ba ng mga kamay ng mga tao ay isa sa halimbawa ng abuso sa panahon ng holly mass? Ok lang ba ito? tapos kumg maraming abuso sa Nuvos Ordo, sa TLM may abuso din ba o wala talaga?
- Fr. Abe, CRS said...
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Sa Our Father ng Novus Ordo Mass ang holding hands ay hindi opisyal na nakasaad na dapat gawin ng mga tao. Sila ay dapat na nakatikom ang mga kamay samantalang ang pari ay nakalahad ang mga palad.
Gayon pa man ang holding hands during Our Father iis not a liturgical abuse. Ito ay isang pious act that developed in the life of the Philippine Church during our people's darkest moments during the Martial Law and the miraculous Liberation given by God through Our Lady of Peace in EDSA Revolution. It became a pious tradition in our country to hold hands during Our Father to express our common desire for Unity, for Peace and for Harmony in the Society.
Kahit na hindi ito itinakdang liturgcal act for Our Father ito ay hindi masama. Actually ito ay mabuti.
Dapat nating tandaan na sa bawat kasaysayan ng iba't-ibang orders o culture in the history of the Church from time to time merong mga nadedevelop na particular liturgical tradition in these groups. Kaya nga may liturgical tradition ang mga Benedictines, Dominicans, Francsicans, etc. There are some variations but these variations are not seen as negative or bad but a pious liturgical tradition in harmony with the liturgical spirit.
Kaya hindi natin dapat masamain ang hindi naman masama. Hindi lahat ng bagay na hindi sinasaad ng Ordo ay masama na o maituturing nang liturgical abuse. SUBALIT, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE I ADMONISH OUR FAITHFUL TO BE FAITHFUL TO THE OFFICIAL RITE BECAUSE LITURGICAL ABUSES DO CAME OUT FROM OUR REPEATED ACTS OF REFUSING TO FOLLOW THE LITURGICAL NORMS AND TEXTS OF THE CHURCH.
May liturgical abuses din ba sa TLM?
YES. THERE IS AND THERE WERE.
First, it is being abused by people who are not in communion with the See of Peter such as the SSPX and the Sedevacantists. The enemies of the Church and of the Popes are using this Extraordinary Form of the Latin Rite not to pray for the Popes but to discredit and take away authority from the Pope.
Second, because of prolonged silence many churchgoers were forgetting the consecration of Jesus and instead reciting the rosary right at the most sacred part of the Mass. Some are reciting Novenas.
Third, due to long silence especially during the Canon the priests are silently reciting the long prayers. Then, nobody except God and the priest can know if they are really reading the texts and the prayers correctly and properly. Almost all of the TLM celebrants recites the Canon rather very fast. Unlike in Novus Ordo that the priest must read them in a coherent, modulated voice understandable to the Bible. In TLM the priest can do a marathon reading like a jet with no one complaining. Thus, there were accusations of impropriety using the liturgcial texts as if they are magical formula.
COURSE THE TLM IS A VERY ELABORATE AND BEAUTIFUL MASS AND THE NOVUS ORDO A VERY SIMPLE AND ALSO BEAUTIFUL MASS. BOTH OF THEM MUST BE CELEBRATED APPROPRIATELY. BOTH ARE VALID CELEBRATIONS OF THE SAME ETERNAL SACRIFICE OF CHRIST.
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The practice of “holding hands” in the Pater Noster should be suppressed. Aside from the fact that it is liturgically incorrect, it sows confusion. Actions in the mass have profound meanings. We cannot just import a political expression into the liturgy. I firmly believe that such action is a an error and this error becomes a “liturgical abuse” when priests and bishops encourage it.
ReplyDelete[The practice of “holding hands” in the Pater Noster should be suppressed.]
ReplyDeleteSUPPRESSION WILL NOT BE HELPFUL ON THIS MATTER. REMEMBER THAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE GROWN FOND OF THE ACTION. WE NEED TO EDUCATE THE PEOPLE ON LITURGICAL MATTER AND GRADUALLY REMOVE IT.
[ Aside from the fact that it is liturgically incorrect, it sows confusion.]
IT IS NOT THE LITURGICAL ACT FOR THE PATER NOSTER BUT TO SAY THAT IT IS INCORRECT IS A LITTLE TOO MUCH. HOLDING ONE ANOTHER'S HAND AS A GESTURE OF UNITY IN FRONT OF OUR COMMON FATHER IN HEAVEN IS NOT INCORRECT.
MUCH MORE, THE FACT THAT PEOPLE LOVED AND ACCEPTED IT SHOWS THAT IT DOES NOT SOW CONFUSION. BECAUSE THE FAITHFUL SAW IN IT A CONCRETE EXPRESSION OF FAMILY UNITY IN FRONT OF GOD THE FATHER.
IT APPEARS THAT THOSE WHO OPPOSE IT ARE VERY MINOR WITH THE NUMBER OF THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT. HOWEVER, THE PEOPLE MUST BE PROPERLY EDUCATED THAT THE PATER NOSTER IS NOT THE PROPER TIME TO HOLD HANDS AND DEMONSTRATE FAMILY UNITY.
[ Actions in the mass have profound meanings.]
INDEED, THEY ARE.
[ We cannot just import a political expression into the liturgy.]
HOLDING HANDS IS NOT JUST A POLITICAL EXPRESSION. IT IS NO LONGER CONFINED TO POLITICAL EXPRESSION.
REMEMBER THE PASSOVER OF THE JEWS. IT STARTED AS A POLITICAL DEFIANCE AGAINST THE POWER OF THE PHARAOH. BUT IT HAS A RELIGIOUS ASPECT BESIDES THE POLITICAL... LATER CHRIST TRANSFORMED IT INTO SACRAMENTAL AND THE CHURCH MADE IT LITURGICAL.
THE HOLDING HANDS IS NO LONGER POLITICAL BUT RELIGIOUS AND IT IS BECOMING PART OF THE LITURGICAL LIFE OF MANY PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY. UNLESS THE PEOPLE ARE CONVINCED THAT THIS MATTER IS INAPPROPRIATE FOR THE PATER NOSTER AND THEY ARE CONVINCED THAT THE ALTERNATIVE IS BETTER AND MORE SPIRITUALLY ENHANCING THEN THEY WILL NOT OBEY EVEN IF WE GIVE AN ORDER TO DISALLOW IT. THE PEOPLE MUST BE CONVINCED.
IN THE CHURCH WHERE I CELEBRATE THE MASS I SPENT A LOT OF SUNDAYS EXPLAINING IT AND NOW, DURING PATER NOSTER ONLY VERY FEW STILL DO THE HOLDING HANDS.
[ I firmly believe that such action is a an error and this error becomes a “liturgical abuse” when priests and bishops encourage it.]
PRIESTS AND BISHOPS MUST NOT ENCOURAGE IT AND IF EVER THEY DO THEY DO NOT COMMIT SOMETHING EVIL. BECAUSE HOLDING HANDS DURING THE PATER NOSTER IS NOT EVIL, IT IS NOT BAD, IT IS NOT AN ERROR BECAUSE IT GIVES GOOD MESSAGES AND EXPRESS SOMETHING POSITIVE ALSO.
IT IS GOOD BUT NOT PROPER FOR THAT PARTICULAR PART OF THE LITURGY. WHAT IS ERRONEOUS IS CHANGING THE WORDS OF THE ANAPHORA OR CANON. WHAT IS EVIL IS THE ACT OF ORDAINING WOMEN AS PRIESTS OR ORDAINING BISHOPS WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE POPE... THINGS LIKE THAT.
Novus ordo abuses such as dancing and singing in the altar, using loud music accompanied by electric guitars and drums, using invalid matter for Eucharist e.g. Doritos and grape juice, holding mass in the beach with people dressed in trunks and two piece bathing suite. How could you possibly compare this to your so called abuses of the TLM like praying the Rosary during the mass.
ReplyDeleteNo less than the then Cardinal Ratzinger has explained what the true meaning of "active participation" is all about in his book entitled, The Spirit of the Liturgy.
For other credible resources you may wish check these:
http://gregorianrite2007.blogspot.com/2010/08/on-praying-rosary-during-mass.html
http://www.insidecatholic.com/feature/getting-active-participation-right.html
You are obviously biased against the TLM and have issues with SSPX, but stand corrected as they have always maintained their loyalty to the pope, and their excommunication has been lifted though they still have some doctrinal issues.
Been reading your blog and with all honesty, your intellectual capacity is admirable. I look forward to meeting you sometime and learning from you
In Christ
Jonah
P.S.
Made a couple of posts which I believe you won't approve, which I understand
Get in touch with me some time and let's make kwento over coffee
saint.jonah@yahoo.com
[Novus ordo abuses such as dancing and singing in the altar,]
ReplyDeleteTHE NOVUS ORDO MISSAL DOES NOT PROVIDE FOR DANCING IN THE ALTAR. THEREFORE THIS STATEMENT IS MISLEADING.
CONCERNING SINGING, THE SINGING IS LIMITED TO THE SINGING OF THE RESPONSORIAL PSALM AND THEREFORE IT IS LITURGICAL AND APPROPRIATE.
[ using loud music accompanied by electric guitars and drums,]
THE NOVUS ORDO DOES NOT PROVIDE THE USE OF LOUD MUSIC ACCOMPANIED BY ELECTRIC GUITARS AND DRUMS. I GREW UP IN NOVUS ORDO BUT THIS IS NOT DONE IN OUR SUNDAY MASSES.
THE USE OF LOUD MUSIC WITH ELECTRIC GUITARS AND DRUMS ARE MORE COMMON FOR CHARISMATIC WORSHIPS. THEREFORE IT CATERS TO A PARTICULAR NEED OF SOME GROUPS ONLY WHOSE SPIRITUALITY PREFERS THE USE OF THOSE INSTRUMENTS.
THE USE OF STRING INSTRUMENTS ARE NOT EVIL PER SE AND THEY WERE USED BY THE PEOPLE OF GOD IN THE TEMPLE DURING WORSHIPS. TO MAKE IT APPEAR AS IF IT IS EVIL IS UNCALLED FOR. WHEN THE CHURCH ALLOWED SOMETHING IT HAS REASONS TO SUPPORT SUCH AUTHORIZATION. NOT BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE DISLIKED IT THEN IT MUST BE SUPPRESSED. ACTUALLY, MORE PEOPLE ARE ATTENDING WORSHIP OF GOD IN THE CHARISMATICS THAN THOSE WHO PREFER THE TLM. I THINK THE RATIO IS 10,000 IS TO 1.
[using invalid matter for Eucharist e.g. Doritos and grape juice,]
ReplyDeleteSINCE MY CHILDHOOD I NEVER EXPERIENCE SUCH A MASS WITH DORITOS AND GRAPE JUICE. NEVER EVER.
I ONLY HEAR OF THESE THINGS IN THE PROTESTANT CHURCHES AND IN BORN AGAIN FELLOWSHIPS. WILL YOU PLEASE BE SO KIND TO NAME THE PARISH AND THE PRIEST USING DORITOS AND GRAGE JUICE? ARE YOU TELLING THE TRUTH OR AN IMAGINARY ABUSES? DEFINITELY, THE NOVUS ORDO RITE DOES NOT PROVIDE FOR SUCH AN ABUSE. NO, NO, NO... IF YOU WANT TO CRITICIZE THE NOVUS ORDO PLEASE GET REAL.
[holding mass in the beach with people dressed in trunks and two piece bathing suite.]
THIS IS NOT ALSO PROVIDED IN NOVUS ORDO. NEVER EVER. THIS IS ALREADY SPECIFICALLY RESPONDED TOO BY THE CHURCH.
[How could you possibly compare this to your so called abuses of the TLM like praying the Rosary during the mass.]
IT IS NOT JUST PRAYING THE ROSARY DURING THE MASS. THERE IS ALSO THE ACCUSATION THAT THE PRIESTS RECITES THE LATIN IN TLM LIKE A MECHANICAL RECORD, VERY FAST... SO THAT IT APPEARS AND LOOK LIKE A SORCERY INCANTATION. HOW DO YOU ANSWER THAT?
[No less than the then Cardinal Ratzinger has explained what the true meaning of "active participation" is all about in his book entitled, The Spirit of the Liturgy.]
PRAYING THE ROSARY INSIDE THE MASS IS DEFINITELY NOT ACTIVE PARTICIPATION BUT DEVOTIONAL DIVERSION.
RECITING THE MASS LIKE AN INCANTATION OF THE WITCHES AND THE SORCERERS WITH NON UNDERSTANDABLE LANGUAGE IS NOT HELPFUL FOR PEOPLE TO BETTER UNDERSTAND AND KNOW THEIR FAITH.
[For other credible resources you may wish check these:
http://gregorianrite2007.blogspot.com/2010/08/on-praying-rosary-during-mass.html
http://www.insidecatholic.com/feature/getting-active-participation-right.html]
THANK YOU.
[You are obviously biased against the TLM]
HOW CAN I BE BIASED AGAINST THE TLM WHEN I AM ONE OF THE FEW PRIESTS WHO CELEBATE IT. I AM SIMPLY DEFENDING THE NOVUS ORDO. IT SO HAPPENED THAT THOSE WHO ATTACK IT ARE MOSTLY TLM LOVERS. THEN THEY SHOULD ALSO FEEL AND KNOW THAT IF NOVUS ORDO CAN BE CRITICIZED THE TLM AS WELL CAN BE SUBJECTED TO THE SAME SCRUTINY. THERE ARE ABUSES IN BOTH RITE.
ABUSES DO NOT DEPEND ON RITES BUT ON THE HEART OF THOSE CELEBRATING AND ATTENDING THEM. THERE ARE HERETICS ATTENDING THE NOVUS ORDO AND SO ALSO IN TLM.
[and have issues with SSPX, but stand corrected as they have always maintained their loyalty to the pope,]
HA, HA, HA... IT IS NEVER FELT AND NEVER CONVINCING. ON THE CONTRARY OUR PERSONAL ENCOUNTER WITH SSPX SUPPORTERS WE ARE CONVINCED THAT THEY ARE ANTI-POPES.
[and their excommunication has been lifted though they still have some doctrinal issues.]
THE EXCOMMUNICATION HAS BEEN LIFTED BECAUSE THE POPE IS GENEROUS AND KIND. BUT IT APPEARS THAT THEY DO NOT RECIPROCATE IT WITH EQUAL GENEROSITY.
THE SSPX IS NOT YET IN FULL COMMUNION WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. STOP USING THE REMOVAL OF EXCOMMUNICATION TO MAKE IT APPEAR AS IF THEY ARE IN GOOD STANDING IN THE CHURCH. THEY ARE STILL ILLICIT... ILLEGAL AND NO CLEAR CANONICAL STATUS IN THE CHURCH.
[Been reading your blog and with all honesty, your intellectual capacity is admirable. I look forward to meeting you sometime and learning from you]
THANK YOU FOR YOUR KIND WORDS. I AM JUST AN AVERAGE PRIEST. IT SO HAPPENED THAT I HAVE THE COURAGE TO STAND FOR MY CATHOLIC FAITH REGARDLESS OF THE REACTION THAT WILL COME FROM THE OTHER PARTIES.
MY LOYALTY IS TO THE POPE AND TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND NOT ON ANY SOCIETY OR GROUPS THAT ARE NOT IN COMMUNION WITH THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER.
[In Christ
Jonah]
GOD BLESS YOU.
[P.S.
Made a couple of posts which I believe you won't approve, which I understand
Get in touch with me some time and let's make kwento over coffee]
SURPRISED. THEY ARE APPROVED.
I DISAGREED WITH YOU, OF COURSE. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR HONESTY TO REVEAL YOUR E-MAIL TO ME.
YEAH, I WILL BE VERY GLAD TO DRINK A CUP OF COFFEE WITH YOU ONE OF THESE DAYS.
[saint.jonah@yahoo.com]
THANKS FOR THE INFO.
[ using loud music accompanied by electric guitars and drums,]
ReplyDeleteTHE NOVUS ORDO DOES NOT PROVIDE THE USE OF LOUD MUSIC ACCOMPANIED BY ELECTRIC GUITARS AND DRUMS. I GREW UP IN NOVUS ORDO BUT THIS IS NOT DONE IN OUR SUNDAY MASSES.
isa po akong organist sa Cagayan de Oro, during Easter Sunday, the parish officers will ask us to be the choir. We are charismatic groups and so we use drums electric guitars and bass guitars with lead guitars etc in our praise and worship. but during special occasions like easter sunday, christmas, and new year and many more, we use our drums and guitars with my piano. we use loud music and sounds-like rock music during the mass.. i stopped because i found it unliturgical for us to do that,, however other charismatic group are still doing that until today. i cant stop them, who am i to stop them.
But when we play our music, though it is loud and "rocky" in style, people are attracted to us because we play the instruments pretty well, just like the common band players like the bamboo or parokya ni edgar, etc.
so Fr totoo pong may loud music sa novus ordo, minsan nga sa Cathedral meron din pero mostly sa mga parishes lang at sa mga small chapels like our chapel in Kauswagan CDO. Ewan ko lang sa ibang place the pilipinas.
by the way Father, why do we need Charismatic worships when in fact we already have a Mass which is the highest form of worship? is Mass isn't enough for them?
ReplyDelete[so Fr totoo pong may loud music sa novus ordo,]
ReplyDeleteBINASA MO BA ANG SINULAT KO SA ITAAS? PARANG HINDI E. BASAHIN MONG MABUTI.
IPINALIWANAG KO SA ITAAS NA ANG MAINGAY NA URI NG PAGSAMBA NA GUMAGAMIT NG LOUD MUSIC AY GINAGAMIT NG MGA CATHOLIC CHARISMATICS. IBIG SABIHIN IYON AY PINAYAGAN PARA SA MGA GRUPO NA GUSTO NG GANONG URI NG SPIRITUALITY.
HINDI LAHAT NG MISA NG ORDO AY CHARISMATIC TYPE.
NGAYON KUNG AYAW MO NIYAN E DI HUWAG KANG MAG CHARISMATIC. PROBLEMA BA YON. DUN KA MAGSIMBA SA MGA MISANG NAPAKATAHIMIK AT HINDI MO NARIRINIG ANG BOSES NG PARI AT WALANG CHOIR KUNDI ISANG CANTORA LANG. MERON DIN NIYAN.
KUNG AYAW MO NG LOUD MUSIC, BAKIT MO MAMASAMAIN ANG GUSTO NG MGA CHARISMATICS? UNLITURGICAL? BAKIT ISANG SPIRITUALITY LANG BA ANG LITIRGICALLY APPROVED NG SANTA IGLESIA? WHEN THE CHURCH APPROVED CHARISMATIC MASSES THEN THEY HAVE BECOME LITURGICAL. STOP IMPOSING YOUR OWN PREFERENCE ON OTHERS.
YAN ANG HIRAP SA MGA TRADITIONAL E. GUSTO NINYO UNAWAIN KAYO NG IBA. PAYAGAN KAYO SA LATIN MASSES, ETC. PERO HINDI KAYO MARUNONG UMUNAWA. KAYA NAMAN MARAMING OBISPO AT PARI NA AYAW PAYAGAN ANG MGA LATIN MASSES KASI KAYO NA RIN ANG NAGPAPAKITA NA HINDI KAYO DAPAT PAGKATIWALAAN.
YUNG MAY GUSTO NG TAHIMIK NA MISA WAG MONG MASAMAIN ANG MGA KAPATID MONG MAS NALALAPIT SA DIOS DAHIL SA PAGGAMIT NG ELECTRIC GUITARS. HINDI NAMAN PAROKYA NI EDGAR SONGS ANG KANTA NILA MGA SONGS OF PRAISES AND WORSHIPS, MGA BEAUTIFUL PSALMS.
E KUNG SABIHAN KA NILA NA ANG MISA NYO E PANG PATAY. TANGGAP MO YON?
[by the way Father, why do we need Charismatic worships when in fact we already have a Mass which is the highest form of worship? is Mass isn't enough for them?]
ReplyDeleteTHE HIGHEST CHARISMATIC WORSHIP IS THE HOLY MASS ALSO. THAT IS THE REASON WHY YOUR QUESTION IS OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY.
I AM NOT FOND OF CHARISMATICS. I DO NOT JOIN THEM BUT I DON'T WANT TO DEPRIVE THEM OF THE KIND OF SPIRITUALITY THAT THEY HAVE CHOSEN AS LONG AS THAT SPIRITUALITY IS APPROVED BY THE AUTHORITY OF THE CHURCH.
so you mean Fr, ok lang ang mga "sound-like rock" music? in such a way that is sounds like a rock concert? why you calling me traditional? i am not a traditional.. you becoming so judgmental Fr, I was sincere with my question and yet answer me as if you scolded me.
ReplyDeleteKailan ba naging liturgical ang mga electric guitars and drums? kailan ba yan na approve? Hindi ko alam kung inaprove yan ng simbahan. profanity yun.
Kailan ba naging multi spirituality ang Catholic Church? diba dapat One Spirituality lang? diba one faith lang dapat?
hindi ko inaasahang unawain ako on my "preference" ang sakin lang ay, dapat sana marunong sila mag respeto sa Real Presence of Christ in the Mass and making noise in the Church is an act of irreverence to Him and disrespect to the Real Presence of Christ as if He is not there. Truly a "sounds-like rock" music is an act of sacrilege. you dont agree on that Fr?
[so you mean Fr, ok lang ang mga "sound-like rock" music?]
ReplyDeleteWHO SAYS THAT THEY ARE NOT OK? WHEN THE CHARISMATIC MOVEMENTS WERE APPROVED AND THEIR MANNER OF WORSHIPPING WERE GIVEN A GO SIGNAL WHO ARE WE TO SAY THAT IT IS WRONG?
ROCK MUSIC IS NOT EVIL PER SE. IT IS THE CONTENT OF THE MUSIC THAT MAKES IT EVIL. THEY ARE NOT SINGING OBSCENITIES IN THE CHARISMATIC MASSES BUT PRAISE AND GLORY TO GOD. SO, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? DON'T BE PRETENTIOUS AS IF YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS RIGHT WHILE THE OTHERS ARE WRONG.
STRINGS INSTRUMENTS WERE USED BY DAVID AND THE HEBREW PEOPLE IN WORSHIPPING THE LORD. AND MAN CAN INVENT MORE INSTRUMENTS AND THEY CAN USE THEM ALSO FOR THE GLORY OF GOD.
[ in such a way that is sounds like a rock concert?]
EXCUSE ME. THE ROCK CONCERTS ARE NOT LIKE THE CHARISMATIC MASSES. THE CHARISMATIC MASSES FOLLOWS THE PATTERN OF THE MASS AND ITS RITES. THE ROCK CONCERTS DO NOT HAVE RITES BUT CONCERT PROGRAM. YOU ARE BECOMING DECEIVED BY YOUR OWN BIAS.
[ why you calling me traditional?]
BECAUSE YOU ARE REJECTING WHAT THE BISHOPS AND THE POPE HAVE ACCEPTED ALREADY. THANK GOD YOU ARE NOT CHOSEN BY THE HOLY SPIRIT TO BE OUR POPE. OTHERWISE THE CHURCH IS LIKE CEMETERY, RULED BY EXTREME SILENCE.
[ i am not a traditional..]
IF YOU ARE NOT THEN DON'T THINK AND SPEAK LIKE A TRADITIONAL. YOU ARE NOT BEING FORCED TO JOIN THE CHARISMATIC MASSES. YOU ARE ALWAYS FREE TO GO TO CHURCHES OR TO THE OTHER MASSES THAT ARE MORE APPROPRIATE TO YOUR TASTE.
[ you becoming so judgmental Fr, I was sincere with my question and yet answer me as if you scolded me.]
I AM NOT BEING JUDGMENTAL. I AM SIMPLY APPALLED BY YOUR DEROGATORY STAND AGAINST THE CHARISMATIC GROUPS. THESE PEOPLE MIGHT BE DOING MORE GOOD THINGS IN THE CHURCH MORE THAN WHAT YOU AND I ARE DOING. I KNOW OF MANY PROTESTANTS WHO BECAME CATHOLICS THROUGH CHARISMATIC EFFORTS.
[Kailan ba naging liturgical ang mga electric guitars and drums?]
ReplyDeleteWHEN THEIR GROUPS AND MANNER OF WORSHIPS WERE APPROVED OR ACCEPTED BY THEIR BISHOPS AND BY THE HOLY FATHER.
[ kailan ba yan na approve? Hindi ko alam kung inaprove yan ng simbahan.]
THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM. YOU ALREADY REJECTED THEM EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE IN A STATE OF IGNORANCE. IF YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF WHAT YOU CRITICIZES BETTER STOP GIVING JUDGMENT FIRST.
[ profanity yun.]
O NO, NO, NO... THEY ARE WORSHIPPING GOD. GOD IS NOT ONLY WORSHIPPED IN SILENCE BUT ALSO IN TRUMPETS AND STRING INSTRUMENTS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ YOUR BIBLE.
[Kailan ba naging multi spirituality ang Catholic Church?]
EVER SINCE MULTI SPIRITUALITY ANG CHURCH. THAT IS WHY THERE IS AN IGNATIAN SPIRITUALITY, DOMINICAN SPIRITUALITY, BENEDICTINE SPIRITUALITY, AUGUSTINIAN SPIRITUALITY, PAULINE SPIRITUALITY, JOHANNINE SPIRITUALITY.... BYZANTINE SPIRITUALITY, MONASTIC SPIRITUALITY, CHARISMATIC SPIRITUALITY, ETC.
THEY HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON BUT THERE ARE ALSO DIFFERENCES.
[diba dapat One Spirituality lang?]
WRONG. ANG SPIRITUALITY AY DIVERSE BUT ONE IN FAITH: ONE GOD, ONE LORD, ONE DOCTRINE, ONE CHURCH. BUT AS SHOWN ABOVE, SPIRITUALITY DIFFERS. EASTERN AND WESTERN SPIRITUALITY DIFFER ALSO.
[ diba one faith lang dapat?]
ONE FAITH BUT NOT ONE SPIRITUALITY LANG. THE EXPRESSIONS OF FAITH ARE ALWAYS VARIANT AND DIVERSIFIED IN THE CHURCH.
[hindi ko inaasahang unawain ako on my "preference" ang sakin lang ay, dapat sana marunong sila mag respeto sa Real Presence of Christ in the Mass]
KELAN NILA BINASTOS ANG REAL PRESENCE SA MISA. THEY WERE KNEELING, BOWING AND WORSHIPPING GOD WITH THEIR FULL VOICE DURING THE MASS. THAT IS NOT LACK OF RESPECT.
IKAW ANG BUMABASTOS SA KANILA E. INAAKUSAHAN MO SILA NG BAGAY NA HINDI NILA GINAGAWA. WATCH THE EL SHADDAI MASS ON TV. DURING THE CONSECRATION THEY WERE SILENT THEN THEY ONLY SING BEAUTIFULLY THE MYSTERY OF FAITH AND THE GREAT AMEN AT THE END OF THE ANAPHORA. NASAN DUON ANG DISRESPECT?
[ and making noise in the Church is an act of irreverence to Him and disrespect to the Real Presence of Christ as if He is not there.]
BALIW KA PALA E. KELAN MO NAKITA ANG MGA CHARISMATIC NA GINULO ANG MGA NAGDADASAL SA LUOB NG SIMBAHAN WORSHIPPING THE BLESSED SACRAMENT AND SUDDENLY THEY PLAYED LOUD MUSIC?
THEY WERE SINGING AND DANCING DURING THEIR OWN TIME. ON THE TIME ALLOTTED FOR THEM BY THE PARISH PRIEST OR THE BISHOP. SO THEY DO NOT DISTURB OTHERS.
[Truly a "sounds-like rock" music is an act of sacrilege. you dont agree on that Fr?]
I DIS-AGREE. I FIND THE CHARISMATICS MORE RESPECTFUL OF GOD THAN MANY OF THOSE I SEE WORSHIPPING HIM IN SILENCE. BESIDES, YOU ARE SHOWING YOUR IGNORANCE OF THE CHARISMATICS. THEY ALSO HAVE REVERENT SILENCE IN THEIR WORSHIPS. IT IS NOT TRUE THAT THEY HAVE REMOVED SILENCE AT ALL. IT SO HAPPENED THAT YOU ARE IGNORANT OF THAT FACT.
THE CHARISMATICS ARE PLAYING LOUD MUSIC BUT NOT ROCK MUSIC. THEIRS IS CALLED 'MUSIC OF PRAISE'.
see the blindness of those people who claim they do not like the liturgical abuses of the novus ordo but hails the mass done sspx priests who are suspended. do they know that what they are doing is an abuse itself? HYPOCRITES
ReplyDeleteDear Father,
ReplyDeleteIm joining a Holly Mass yesterday at San Antonio De Padua in Los Banos Laguna at around 6pm,ako lang po ay nagtataka dahil ordinary form ang mesa ngunit may halong Latin Song sa panahon ng pag-alay pati ang pari gumamit din ng Latin language.
Hindi po liturgical abuses ang pagkanta ng Latin songs sa Misa at paggamit ng Latin kasi the Latin language is the official language of the Church and the latin songs, especially Gregorian Chants are officially considered as liturgical treasures of the Church.
ReplyDeleteFather, pwede pog magtanong? Saan po kayang website o kaya naman po bookstore makakahanap ng GIRM na exclusive lang po sa Pilipinas? Salamat po.
ReplyDeleteI ALSO DONT KNOW...
ReplyDeleteTRY TO ASK IN "RORATE CAELI BLOG"... ASK BRO. CARLOS ANTONIO PALAD.
ReplyDeleteSige po father, salamat po.
ReplyDeleteWELCOME
ReplyDelete