His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI sitting on his Cathedra in the Basilica of St. John Lateran, Rome
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Good Evening Fr. Abe!
I have a question... pag po ba umattend ako ng mass sa SSPX masama po ba iyon? Tangal na po ba ang pagka ex-communicate ng SSPX sa Catholic church? kasi they also call themselves Catholics. One thing more nabasa ko din po sa blog nyo na sa aglipay church ndi present si Jesus sa kailang consecation. Sa SSPX po ba nagiging katawan din ni Jesus ung ostia nila during consecration? I am one of your readers. :) Thank You and God Bless you Fr. Abe!
- Fr. Abe, CRS said...
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[Good Evening Fr. Abe!]
GOOD EVENING DIN.
[I have a question... pag po ba umattend ako ng mass sa SSPX masama po ba iyon?]
YES, KASI ILLEGAL ANG MISA NILA. ANG TAWAG DON AY ILLICIT. KAYA KAPAG SUMASAMA KA SA KANILA PARANG SINUSUPORTAHAN MO NA RIN ANG ILLEGALIDAD NILANG GINAGAWA AT ANG KANILANG DISOBEDIENCE TO THE POPE.
[Tangal na po ba ang pagka ex-communicate ng SSPX sa Catholic church?]
ANG NA-EXCOMMUNICATE LANG NAMAN AY SI LEFEBVRE AT ANG 4 BISHOPS. SI LEFEBVRE AY PATAY NA AT BULOK NA BULOK NA ANG BANGKAY. YUNG 4 BISHOPS BUHAY PA AT TINANGGAL NA ANG EXCOMMUNICATION SA KANILA DAHIL NAKIUSAP POPE BENEDICT XVI ANG LEADER NILA NA SI BERNARD FELLAY NA ALISIN NA ANG EXCOMMUNICATION. SUBALIT ANG SSPX AY HINDI PA RIN BUMABALIK SA FULL COMMUNION WITH THE POPE.
[kasi they also call themselves Catholics.]
SIEMPRE. PANO SILA MAKAKAPANGLOKO NG MGA CATOLICO PARA SUMAMA SILA KUNG SASABIHIN NILANG HINDI SILA CATOLICO. PERO, HINDI SILA IN COMMUNION WITH THE POPE AND THE LOCAL BISHOPS.
[One thing more nabasa ko din po sa blog nyo na sa aglipay church ndi present si Jesus sa kailang consecation. Sa SSPX po ba nagiging katawan din ni Jesus ung ostia nila during consecration?]
OO NAGIGING KATAWAN NI CRISTO SUBALIT ILLEGAL ANG MISA NILA DAHIL HINDI SILA SUMUSUNOD SA SANTO PAPA. KAYA MALI PA RIN NA ITO AY SAMAHAN. KAHIT VALIDO ANG MISA NILA ITO AY PAGLAPASTANGAN SA PANGINOONG JESUS NA NAGTURO SA ATIN NA SI SAN PEDRO ANG MAY HAWAK NG SUSI NG LANGIT [MATTHEW 16:18-19].
[I am one of your readers. :) Thank You and God Bless you Fr. Abe!]
THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND GOD BLESS YOU.
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![ST. JEROME EMILIANI [1486-1537]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6dKQTchkJaA/R0lo013dyBI/AAAAAAAAB_4/XzUAPDESwwQ/s1600/St.+Jerome+in+prayer,+small_1.jpg)
Fr. Abe,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that we should not participate in SSPX services because the sacraments they celebrate are illicit. However, in the absence of licitly celebrated sacraments, we may be obliged to attend to SSPX celebrations since theirs is a valid celebration of the sacraments. Indeed, illicit but valid. This is so because their priesthood is illicit but valid.
Honestly, Father, I don't understand why are you so hard on Traditionalists. Yes, they have their share of errors, but we have ours too. It is just fortunate that we did not separate from the Church, from the Pope. They don't deserve your condemnations and maltreatment. We can learn so much from them.
Father do you really research what you answers? Please google the case of "Hawaii Six" para malinawan ka. Masyado kang defensive against SSPX and traditionalist Catholic. Bakit kaya napakasarcastic mo sumagot? Parang hindi ka pari...
ReplyDeleteDear Bro. Forest-King,
ReplyDeleteIndeed, it is allowed to attend a valid but illicit Mass in the ABSENCE OF A LICITLY CELEBRATED Sacraments. But thanks to be God we have enough churches and houses of worship here in the Philippines wherein valid and licit Masses are offered for the spiritual nourishment of the faithful. May be I can attend the Masses of SSPX when I am in Mecca, Saudi Arabia on special tour in 2075.
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST THE TRADITIONALISTS. BUT MY FACEBOOK GROUPS AND SOME OF THE AREAS I HAVE VISITED COMPLAINED TO ME THAT THE SSPX PRIESTS ARE ROAMING AROUND WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE LOCAL BISHOP AND THEY ARE ATTACKING THE POPE AND VATICAN II AS HERETICS.
IF THEY WANT DIALOGUE ON LITURGY FINE. IF THEY WANT UNDERSTANDING FINE. BUT WE DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO BE TRAITORS AGAINST US. NO, NO, NO...
THE REASON WHY THESE SSPX FANATICS ARE ATTACKING WITH IMPUNITY BECAUSE WE DO NOT ANSWER THEM FAIRLY AND SQUARELY IN A MANNER UNDERSTANDABLE TO THEM. I THINK IT IS TIME TO CALL A SPADE A SPADE RATHER THAN TREAT THEM LIKE A BABY WHILE THEY ARE STABBING US ON THE BACK.
Okay, Fr. I understand. I met one of them here. He/she was horrible. Too much pride in his/her heart.
ReplyDeleteYOU SEE, BRO. FOREST-KING. THE OFFICIAL STATEMENTS OF SSPX ARE VERY BEAUTIFUL. BUT IN REALITY YOU WILL ENCOUNTER MANY OF THEM AS MONSTERS. THEY THINK THAT THE POPE AND ALL BISHOPS ARE IN HERESY WHILE THEY ARE THE PRESERVERS OF TRADITION. HOW DARE THEM!
ReplyDelete[Father do you really research what you answers? Please google the case of "Hawaii Six" para malinawan ka. Masyado kang defensive against SSPX and traditionalist Catholic. Bakit kaya napakasarcastic mo sumagot? Parang hindi ka pari...]
ReplyDeleteI THINK WHAT YOU HAVE RESEARCHED IS THE CASE OF 'HAWAII FIVE'O'. HA, HA, HA...
WELL, IF I AM SARCASTIC IT IS BECAUSE MY OPPONENTS DESERVE IT.
THE CASE OF THAT HAWAII SIX DOES NOT CHANGE ANYTHING. IT ONLY SHOWED AND PROVED BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT HOW CARDINAL RATZINGER NOW POPE BENEDICT XVI IS A MAN OF CHARITY AND KINDNESS.
ReplyDeleteIT IS A FURTHER PROOF OF THE HYPOCRISY OF SSPX. THEY REJECT WITH SO MUCH HATRED THE MASS OF POPE PAUL VI YET WHEN THEY WANT THEIR PREFERRED MASS THEY WANT ACCEPTANCE AND UNDERSTANDING FROM THE HOLY SEE.
BUT DESPITE THE CHARITY OF THE POPE THEY STILL ATTACK HIM AND THE PAULINE MASS WITH UTMOST HATRED. THEY WANT MERCY FOR THEMSELVES BUT THEY CANNOT GIVE THE SAME MERCY FOR THE PAULINE MASS.
HYPOCRITES. THEY WANT TO RECEIVE MERCY BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO GIVE IT TO OTHERS.
Fr. Abe,
ReplyDeleteThe Tridentine Latin Mass is the "LAWFUL and OFFICIAL MASS" of the Catholic Church as promulgated by Her, through Saint Pope Pius V. No one can stop, abrogate, nor threat a priest from celebrating it.
The "NOVUS ORDO" has not the same status.
The Pauline mass was designed by Protestants. The same protestants that misunderstood the glorious teaching of the Church.
Now then, the SSPX continued what the Church have brought to the world with God's help.
And when you speak of attacking the Pope, in what terms? St. Paul corrected St. Peter of actions that does not reflect the Doctrine of the Church. Read Acts.
It's not just simply by attaching one self to the Pope that makes you Catholic. It's the Faith, as revealed and taught by the Magisterium of the church.
SUBALIT ANG SSPX AY HINDI PA RIN BUMABALIK SA FULL COMMUNION WITH THE POPE"
ReplyDeletePADRE ABE,
ISA YANG PAN-LILINLANG FROM YOU.
The SSPX encourage the community to pray for the Pope. Who say's they are not in full communion with the Pope? Only those who have so little knowledge on the subject.
The SSPX recognize the Pope as the Vicar of Christ and successor of St. Peter.
The Pope is there to preserve the Faith handed down to him, not destroy it.
So, read Acts and St. Paul's correction on St. Peter. Was St. Paul not in full communion with the Pope (St. Peter) at the time?
By insisting on the Faith of the Church as revealed by the Holy Spirit and taught by the Magisterium of the Church, is an act confirming full communion with the Office of the Pope --- whose purpose is to provide guidance to the flock.
The Pauline mass was designed by Protestants. The same protestants that misunderstood the glorious teaching of the Church.
ReplyDelete>>>>It was made by Catholic Bishops specifically the Consilium ad exsequendam Constitutionem de Sacra Liturgia. Significant changes came to the existing liturgy, though the form of the rite was substantially preserved. By October 1967, the Consilium had produced a complete draft revision of the liturgy, and this revision was presented to the Synod of Bishops that met in Rome in that month. The bishops attended the first public celebration of the revised rite in the Sistine Chapel. When asked to vote on the new liturgy, 71 bishops voted placet (approved), 43 voted non placet (not approved) and 62 voted placet iuxta modum (approved with reservations). In response to the bishops' concerns, some changes were made to the text. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_of_Paul_VI)
Protestants have no role in implementing the council's decision nor were they give voice to speak in the council. They were just there silent and observing the bishops.
If you say that our mass is protestant, You better think twice because basing on this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOQewywVGjQ
The Anglican priest wears "Fiddleback" Roman Chasuble, he also wears maniple and faces ad orientem- well it seems that the Tridentine mass is MORE SIMILAR TO ANGLICAN PROTESTANT mass than our Novus ordo.
UBALIT ANG SSPX AY HINDI PA RIN BUMABALIK SA FULL COMMUNION WITH THE POPE"
ReplyDeletePADRE ABE,
ISA YANG PAN-LILINLANG FROM YOU.
The SSPX encourage the community to pray for the Pope. Who say's they are not in full communion with the Pope? Only those who have so little knowledge on the subject. The SSPX recognize the Pope as the Vicar of Christ and successor of St. Peter.
>>>Just because sspx includes the pope in their prayers, that does not mean they are in full communion with the Catholic Church in the full sense. One is not in communion with the Catholic Church by simply recognizing the pope as the supreme pastor; he has to recognize the official teachings of the Church that he has approved. That includes Vatican II as stated by Benedict XVI :
I HOPE THAT HIS GESTURE OF MINE WILL BE FOLLOWED BY AN EARNEST COMMITMENT ON THEIR BEHALF TO COMPLETE THE NECESSARY FURTHER STEPS TO ACHEIVE FULL COMMUNION WITH THE CHURCH, THIS WITNESSING TRUE FIDELITY TO, AND TRUE RECOGNITION OF THE MAGETERIUM AND THE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE AND THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL."
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090128_en.html
ACCPETING THE POPE AS VICAR OF CHRIST IS MORE THAN SAYING HIS NAME IN THE MASS, IT MEANS FOLLOWING HIS ORDER AND TEACHING IN HIS CAPACITY AS THE SUPREME PASTOR OF THE CHURCH.
The Pope is there to preserve the Faith handed down to him, not destroy it.
>>>Who said that the pope destroyed tradition? Those ultrads who claim that the Pope destroyed tradition is fallacious. The statement "The Pope is there to preserve the Faith handed down to him, not destroy it" is incomplete. Such statement limits the authority of the pope as mere "watchguard" of the tradition. Vatican I say otherwise:
"So, then, if anyone says that the Roman Pontiff has MERELY AN OFFICE OF SUPERVISION AND GUIDANCE, AND NOT THE FULL AND SUPREME POWER OF JURISDICTION OVER THE WHOLE CHURCH, AND THIS NOT ONLY IN MATTERS OF FAITH AND MORALS, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the Churches and overall and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be ANATHEMA."
EDNARD KIM LA ROSA Part 1
EDNARD KIM LA ROSA Part 3
ReplyDeleteBy insisting on the Faith of the Church as revealed by the Holy Spirit and taught by the Magisterium of the Church, is an act confirming full communion with the Office of the Pope --- whose purpose is to provide guidance to the flock.
>>>The council of Vatican II was just like the council in Jerusalem. Some want to maintain the tradition of Moses- the conservatives and some were into Change like Paul- the progressives. Each bishops debated, had arguments, some won, others lost. Studying the record of discussions among the bishops, of drafts of documents, and the proposals for change can, of course, aid us in understanding the final approved results. For in the end, it is the final document that trumps all earlier arguments and discussion. Once voted on and promulgated by the Pope, a conciliar document is no longer the victory of one side or the triumph of a faction: IT BECOMES PART OF THE MAGESTERIUM OF THE CHURCH. And Catholics have a duty to accept the teaching of a council.
And this is the reason why we accept the council. This is the reason why Paul VI and John Paul II did their best to implement its teaching. And this is the reason Lefebvre fell into error. He sought to appeal to earlier councils in order to discredit Vatican II. But that which guarantees the truth of the teaching of one council guarantees the truth of them all.
EDNARD KIM LA ROSA Part 4
ReplyDeleteThe Tridentine Latin Mass is the "LAWFUL and OFFICIAL MASS" of the Catholic Church as promulgated by Her, through Saint Pope Pius V.
>>>Yes it is LAWFUL and Official Mass of the Roman Rite Church- not of the ENTIRE CATHOLIC CHURCH- because there are distinct rites and masses from the Roman rite that were retained, and that Includes the Divine Liturgy of the Eastern Catholics. Different prayers but the same sacrament, equal of dignity to its Roman counterpart.
But here is the Catch, When a SUSPENDED PRIEST like those of SSPX ministers, celebrate the mass (YES EVEN IF IT IS IN THE TRIDENTINE FORM) THE MASS cease to be lawful- IT BECOMES ILLICIT. Cardinal Hoyos Have Affirmed this that your masses are Illicit, and discourages us not to attend your masses because IT IS UNLAWFUL, EVEN IF IT IS IN THE TRIDENTINE FORM plus the danger of Indoctrination from SSPX to justify their disobedience to the Roman pontiff.
Plus he confirms that SSPX PRIEST HAVE NO FACULTY IN FORGIVING SINS IN THE SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION AND OFFICIATE WEDDINGS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE DIOCESAN DELEGATION. (http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/mershon/080711)
EDNARD KIM LA ROSA Part 5
ReplyDeleteNo one can stop, abrogate, nor threat a priest from celebrating it.
>>>Who says it was abrogated or nullified? It was limited by Paul VI to give room to the 1970 mass (now called the ordinary form in Benedict XVI's Summorum Pontificum). In fact elderly priests were not required to switch to celebrating the new rite in those times and that includes St. Padre Pio and St. Josemaría Escrivá. With Summorum Pontificum it is lawful for a priest to celebrate it. What is unlawful if a suspended priest like the SSPX says the mass despite of canonical suspension.
The "NOVUS ORDO" has not the same status.
>>>>Because you think that just because there are "In perpetuity" and anathemas are attached to the Apostolic Constitution of St. Pius V's "Quo Primum" is infallible magesterium and that Pope Paul VI has no authority to change the mass. Excuse me, But "Quo Primum" is a papal instruction that governs about CHURCH DISCIPLINE, NOT OF DOCTRINAL TEACHINGS. Therefore it can be changed anytime the Pope wants to. Consistent with previous and subsequent Popes, Pope Saint Pius V used ecclesiastical terms like “forever” and “in perpetuity” to safeguard the liturgy. But these terms do DO NOT BIND future Popes from altering the disciplines, who themselves would have “supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power” in their respective pontificates. This means that Paul VI has the same absolute Authority that Pope Pius V posses in his own pontificate. That means when Paul VI had approved the NOVUS ORDO, IT HAS THE SAME STATUS THANK THAT OF THE MASS OF PIUS V.
EDNARD KIM LA ROSA Part 6
ReplyDeleteThe Pauline mass was designed by Protestants. The same protestants that misunderstood the glorious teaching of the Church.
>>>>It was made by Catholic Bishops specifically the Consilium ad exsequendam Constitutionem de Sacra Liturgia. Significant changes came to the existing liturgy, though the form of the rite was substantially preserved. By October 1967, the Consilium had produced a complete draft revision of the liturgy, and this revision was presented to the Synod of Bishops that met in Rome in that month. The bishops attended the first public celebration of the revised rite in the Sistine Chapel. When asked to vote on the new liturgy, 71 bishops voted placet (approved), 43 voted non placet (not approved) and 62 voted placet iuxta modum (approved with reservations). In response to the bishops' concerns, some changes were made to the text. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_of_Paul_VI)
Protestants have no role in implementing the council's decision nor were they give voice to speak in the council. They were just there silent and observing the bishops.
If you say that our mass is protestant, You better think twice because basing on this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOQewywVGjQ
The Anglican priest wears "Fiddleback" Roman Chasuble, he also wears maniple and faces ad orientem- well it seems that the Tridentine mass is MORE SIMILAR TO ANGLICAN PROTESTANT mass than our Novus ordo.
Now then, the SSPX continued what the Church have brought to the world with God's help.
>>>What SSPX have is not continuing what the Church has brought. By rejecting Vatican II and disobeyed the pope they have become liberals themselves. What they are continuing is the Sin of Adam and Eve, DISOBEDIENCE.
EDNARD KIM LA ROSA Part 7
ReplyDeleteAnd when you speak of attacking the Pope, in what terms? St. Paul corrected St. Peter of actions that does not reflect the Doctrine of the Church. Read Acts.
>>>You said it yourself: HE REBUKED PETER BECAUSE OF WHAT PETER DID, NOT BECAUSE OF WHAT HE TAUGHT. But when Peter spoke everybody listened. Paul Never neither questioned nor disobey the teaching authority of Peter. When the Pope approved the Documents of Vatican II, it becomes the teachings of the Church. Lefebvre on the other hand did not followed what the apostles did when Peter spoke, He kept on complaining and criticizing when he in fact signed those documents.
It's not just simply by attaching one self to the Pope that makes you Catholic. It's the Faith, as revealed and taught by the Magisterium of the church.
>>>“it is as contrary to the divine constitution of the Church as it is to perpetual and constant tradition for anyone to attempt to prove the catholicity of his faith and truly call himself a Catholic when he fails in obedience to the Apostolic See" (Pope Pius IX, "Quartus Supra", Letter to the Armenians, January 6, 1873. )
You why then Cardinal Ratzinger called Lefebvre a Liberal? Here is his letter to Lefebvre dated July 28, 1987: "By giving a personal interpretation of the texts of the magisterium, you would paradoxically give an example of this Liberalism which you fight so strongly, and would act contrarily to the goal you pursue. Indeed, it is to Peter that the Lord has entrusted the government of His Church; the Pope is therefore the principal artisan of her unity. Assured of the promises of Christ, he will never be able to oppose in the Church the authentic magisterium and holy Tradition."
It is by the belief in the sacred Scripture that we believe that Peter has the keys of the kingdom of heaven as promised to him by Jesus, It is by tradition that we believe that every successor of him in the See of Rome We believe that possess that same authority. It is this very reason WE UPHOLD THAT THE POPE IS THE SUPREME LEGISLATOR, TEACHER AND JUDGE OF TRADITION, SCRIPTURE AND MAGESTERIUM. That is why we cannot simply separate our Faith as revealed and taught by the Magisterium of the church. For his voice is the voice of Catholic Tradition in the Church today — a Tradition that has been passed down to him by Christ and the Apostles.
Father Abe,
ReplyDeleteVatican II did not declare to be a dogmatic council. In matters of Faith and Moral no council can override what have been declared by previous 'DOGMATIC COUNCIL'. You for one should know that.
[quote]
"Yes it is LAWFUL and Official Mass of the Roman Rite Church- not of the ENTIRE CATHOLIC CHURCH- because there are distinct rites and masses from the Roman rite that were retained, and that Includes the Divine Liturgy of the Eastern Catholics."
[/quote]
As said, it has always been the LAWFUL mass and not just selected Church. The Catholic Church as declared by Pope St. Pius V allowed celebration of other norms, if and only if, it has been practiced for more than 200 years. Others are bound to observe the Tridentine Latin Mass and no bishop can stop any priests wanting to celebrate it. There is Wisdom to that, because St. Pope Pius V knew then that there will be people who shall adulterate the mass and distort the Faith of the Church.
If then it is lawful why then you should follow one which was concocted by PROTESTANTS? Light have no part in darkness. And today, a many Catholics no longer know left from right and vice versa.
Then we go to obedience and disobedience. Would st. paul then allow the action of St. peter that is not in line with Church's doctrine? Of course not. St. Paul in Acts corrected St. Peter. Correction does not mean schism. And, in matters of confusion, one can follow what the Church has handed down with Infallible declaration by the Dogmatic Council -- Vatican 1.
This is one thing Catholics need to discern. THE POPE IS NOT ABOVE TRADITION --- THE FAITH DEPOSITED THROUGHOUT THE TIMES AND HAVE BEEN TAUGHT BY THE CHURCH.
When does infallibility apply on the Pope? Is the Pope infallible at all times? You should also be aware Father that a many bishops and priests today do not even follow the Holy Father in affirming the Faith. Where do you give the host ... hand? or tongue? The Holy Father expressed kneeling while receiving the host with the tongue and yet a many priests do not obey that call. And, now you qualify what is obedience and disobedience?
http://newsblaze.com/story/20090801065749zzzz.nb/topstory.html
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope_prefers_communion_on_the_tongue_msgr._marini_says/
Therefore father, when a Pope no longer confirm the faith of the Church -- it is not disobedience to the Church of not following a Pope's bad example. Infallibility does not rest on the Pope at all times.
Moreover, what the SSPX reject are teachings that goes contrary to what the Church have taught and declared Dogmatically. They do not question the Pope as successor of Peter. With that, the SSPX pray that the Pope continue to fight for the True Faith.
Do not be confused with the Anglicans. While the Anglican kept their own structure separate from the Church --- (a true sign of disobedience); the SSPX does not desire to have a new structure but only to continue what the Church have Infallibly taught throughout the times. Because of their desire to continue what the Church have brought to the world, they are scorned and declared to be disobeying the Pope.
Father Abe, cite one false Dogmatic teaching of Vatican 1 that Vatican II have corrected. Why then continuing what the Church clearly taught is a sin?
[Vatican II did not declare to be a dogmatic council.]
ReplyDeleteTHE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL IS BOTH DOGMATIC AND PASTORAL. ALL ECUMENICAL COUNCILS ARE BOTH DOGMATIC AND PASTORAL.
VATICAN II ISSUED TWO DOGMATIC CONSTITUTIONS:
1. DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH [LUMEN GENTIUM]
2. DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DIVINE REVELATION [DEI VERBUM]
AND 1 PASTORAL CONSTITUTION: GAUDIUM ET SPES.
[In matters of Faith and Moral no council can override what have been declared by previous 'DOGMATIC COUNCIL'.]
ONLY AN IDIOT WILL CLAIM THAT VATICAN II OVERRIDE ANY DOGMA OF THE CHURCH. IT IS IN PERFECT HARMONY AND CONTINUITY WITH THE PREVIOUS COUNCILS. AND IF THERE IS ANY CHANGE, THOSE WERE ON THINGS THAT ARE PASTORAL AND NOT DOGMATIC BECAUSE VATICAN II DEALT ALSO ON PASTORAL MATTERS.
[You for one should know that.]
I AM SURPRISED THAT YOU ARE IGNORANT OF IT.
[As said, it has always been the LAWFUL mass and not just selected Church.]
ReplyDeleteTHE MASS IS LAWFUL IF IT IS CELEBRATED IN COMMUNION WITH THE VICAR OF CHRIST. IF IT IS NOT THEN IT IS ILLEGAL. THE MASSES OF SSPX ARE ILLEGAL BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT IN COMMUNION WITH THE VICAR OF CHRIST.
[The Catholic Church as declared by Pope St. Pius V allowed celebration of other norms, if and only if, it has been practiced for more than 200 years.]
POPE ST. PIUS V WAS REFERRING TO ALL THE VALID MASSES OF THE CHURCH. HE WAS NOT SAYING 'TRIDENTINE LATIN MASS ONLY'. THAT IS WHY IT IS FOOLISH TO INTERPRET HIS DECREE AS IF REFERRING TO TLM ALONE. BESIDES, THE POPE WAS REFERRING TO THE HOLY MASS BUT NOT TO THE PERPETUITY OF RITE OR LITURGICAL ACTIONS. THE MASS IS THE SAME AND UNCHANGING BUT THE LITURGY AND THE RITES ARE EXPERIENCING CHANGES THROUGHOUT THE CENTURIES.
[Others are bound to observe the Tridentine Latin Mass and no bishop can stop any priests wanting to celebrate it.]
THE BISHOP OF ROME CAN STOP ANY PRIEST IN USING ANY RITE OF THE CHURCH. THE TLM IS NOT DIVINE IN ORIGIN. IT WAS A LATER INVENTION ALSO. BUT THE POWER TO BIND AND TO LOOSE OF THE VICAR OF CHRIST IS DIVINE IN ORIGIN. HE CAN APPROVE OR DISALLOW ANY RITE IN THE CHURCH.
ARE YOU IGNORANT OF THAT?
[There is Wisdom to that, because St. Pope Pius V knew then that there will be people who shall adulterate the mass and distort the Faith of the Church.]
POPE ST. PIUS V NEVER TAUGHT THAT THE VICAR OF CHRIST WILL BE THE ONE TO ADULTERATE THE MASS. INSTEAD, THE TRUE MASS SHALL BE PRESERVED BY THE VICAR OF CHRIST. IT IS THE SSPX WHO ARE ADULTERATING THE TLM WITH THEIR CANONICAL DISOBEDIENCE AND LITURGICAL REBELLION.
[If then it is lawful why then you should follow one which was concocted by PROTESTANTS?]
ReplyDeletePROTESTANTS? EXCUSE ME. IVE BEEN DEBATING PROTESTANTS HERE IN THIS GROUP AND AM DOING SO FOR MANY YEARS SINCE I WAS A LAD BUT I NEVER HEARD OF A PROTESTANT LOVING OUR VERNACULAR MASS. THEY HATE IT. PROTESTANTS HATE THE NOVUS ORDO JUST LIKE THE SSPX HATE THE NOVUS ORDO.
IT MEANS THE SSPX AND THE PROTESTANTS ARE POSSESSED BY THE SAME DEMON OF REBELLION AGAINST THE CHURCH AND THE POPE.
[Light have no part in darkness.]
THE SSPX IS IN DARKNESS BECAUSE INSTEAD OF CHOOSING PETER IT CHOSE LEFEBVRE THE CONTEMPORARY AGENT OF LUCIFER.
[And today, a many Catholics no longer know left from right and vice versa.]
DON'T INCLUDE US IN YOUR EVIDENT IGNORANCE.
[Then we go to obedience and disobedience.]
LEFEBVRE AND HIS MINIONS DISOBEYED THE CHURCH AND THE VICAR OF CHRIST AS LUCIFER DID TO GOD AND AS LUTHER DID CENTURIES BACK.
[Would st. paul then allow the action of St. peter that is not in line with Church's doctrine? Of course not.]
YOU SEE, YOU ARE ALREADY USING THE PROTESTANT ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE PAPACY. HA, HA, HA... THAT IS CLASSIC PROTESTANT ARGUMENTATION.
TO CORRECT YOUR IGNORANCE, ST. PETER DIDNT COMMIT ANY INFRACTION ON MATTERS OF DOCTRINE BUT OF CONDUCT. IT WAS HIS ATTITUDE THAT ST. PAUL WAS CORRECTING. BUT ON MATTERS OF FAITH AND MORALS ST. PAUL IS NOTHING EQUAL WITH ST. PETER. IN FACT IN ACTS 15 ST. PAUL AND ST. BARNABAS WERE NOT BELIEVED BY THE CHRISTIANS AND IT WAS ST. PETER WHO SETTLED THE ISSUE. THE CHRISTIANS LISTENED TO PAUL AFTER ST. PETER SUPPORTED HIM.
[St. Paul in Acts corrected St. Peter.]
IDIOT. THAT IS NOT IN ACTS THAT IS IN GALATIANS 2:11.
ARE YOU THAT STUPID OF THE BIBLE? THAT IS ELEMENTARY MY DEAR DUDE D DUDE. HA, HA, HA... IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE LEARNING FROM LEFEBVRE, STUPIDITIES?
[ Correction does not mean schism.]
LEFEBVRE AND THE SSPX ARE NOT CORRECTING THEY ARE REBELLING. THEY ARE COMMITTING ACTIVE REBELLION FROM THE HOLY FATHER. THAT IS SCHISMATIC.
[And, in matters of confusion, one can follow what the Church has handed down with Infallible declaration by the Dogmatic Council -- Vatican 1.]
HA, HA, HA... THE VATICAN I DECLARES THE ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE OVER THE CHURCH. THUS IN TIMES OF CRISIS THE FAITHFUL MUST CLING TO THE POPE NOT ON ANY SOCIETY FOUNDED BY A WACKY OLD FOOL.
[This is one thing Catholics need to discern.]
ReplyDeleteTHE VATICAN 1 DECLARES THE ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE OVER THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH. NO AUTHORITY IN THE CHURCH IS OVER AND BEYOND THAT OF THE BISHOP OF ROME, THE VICAR OF CHRIST.
[THE POPE IS NOT ABOVE TRADITION ---]
THE POPE IS NOT ABOVE TRADITION BUT LEFEBVRE AND THE SSPX ARE NOT ABOVE THE POPE. HA, HA, HA...
THE SSPX AND LEFEBVRE ARE INFERIOR ANIMALS IN COMPARISON WITH THE POPE.
THE POPE IS THE SUPREME GUARDIAN AND INTERPRETER OF TRADITION... NOT THE SSPX AND NOT THEIR WACKY OLD FOOL FOUNDER NAMED MARCEL LEFEBVRE.
[THE FAITH DEPOSITED THROUGHOUT THE TIMES AND HAVE BEEN TAUGHT BY THE CHURCH.]
THE SSPX IS NOT THE CHURCH. IT IS OUTSIDE THE CHURCH. LEFEBVRE WAS AN EXCOMMUNICATED FOOL.
[When does infallibility apply on the Pope?]
WHEN DOES INFALLIBILITY APPLY ON LEFEBVRE AND THE SSPX? DO THEY HAVE A GIFT OF INFALLIBILITY SO THAT WE CAN ENTRUST OUR SOULS TO THEM?
[Is the Pope infallible at all times?]
THE SSPX AND LEFEBVRE ARE NOT INFALLIBLE AT ALL TIMES. ALWAYS AND EVERYWHERE. NO, NO, NO... THERE IS NO ANY IOTA OF INFALLIBILITY IN THAT SATANIC CULT.
[ You should also be aware Father that a many bishops and priests today do not even follow the Holy Father in affirming the Faith.]
IF THAT IS THE CASE THEY ARE IMITATING LEFEBVRE AND THE SSPX. SO YOU HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON. AREN'T YOU HAPPY WITH THAT?
[Where do you give the host ... hand? or tongue?]
THE VICAR OF CHRIST APPROVED BOTH: OFFICIALLY ON THE TONGUE AND BY SPECIAL APPROVAL BY THE HAND. WHY? IS THERE A DOGMA LIMITING THE RECEPTION OF THE EUCHARIST TO THE TONGUE, FOREVER?
[The Holy Father expressed kneeling while receiving the host with the tongue and yet a many priests do not obey that call.]
THE HOLY FATHER DID THAT AS A PERSONAL CHOICE. BUT IF HE WILL ISSUE A DECREE REMOVING ALL APPROVAL FOR COMMUNION BY THE HAND AND IMPOSE COMMUNION ON TONGUE ONLY THEN EVERY BODY WILL FOLLOW.
[ And, now you qualify what is obedience and disobedience?]
OBEDIENCE AND DISOBEDIENCE STRICTLY SPEAKING IS BEING IN CANONICAL COMMUNION WITH THE VICAR OF CHRIST AND UPHOLDING EVERYTHING THAT HE TEACHES. DEFINITELY, LEFEBRE AND THE SSPX ARE NOT QUALIFIED FOR THAT.
[Therefore father, when a Pope no longer confirm the faith of the Church -- it is not disobedience to the Church of not following a Pope's bad example.]
ReplyDeleteHA, HA, HA... YOU ARE ACCUSING THE POPE OF APOSTASY. HA, HA, HA... AND NOT ONLY THAT OF HERESY.
IF THE POPE DOES NOT CONFIRM THE FAITH OF THE CHURCH THEN THAT POPE IS HERETICAL AND HAD APOSTATIZED. HOW COME THE SSPX ARE STILL RECITING HIS NAME IN THE MASS? IF I AM CONVINCED THAT THE POPE IS NO LONGER CONFIRMING THE CATHOLIC FAITH IT WILL BE AGAINST MY CONSCIENCE TO RECITE HIS NAME IN THE ANAPHORA.
YOU ARE LYING HERE. YOU SAID THAT YOU ARE STILL IN COMMUNION WITH THE POPE. HOW CAN YOU BE IN COMMUNION WITH A POPE WHO IS A HERETIC? OR HAS APOSTATIZED?
STOP THROWING AT THE POPE THE EVIL THAT YOU HAVE EMBRACED. THE POPE IS CONFIRMING AND HAD AFFIRMED THE FAITH OF THE CHURCH. IT IS LEFEBVRE AND THE SSPX WHO HAD SUCCUMBED TO LITURGICAL AND CANONICAL DISOBEDIENCE TO THE CHURCH AND TO THE POPE.
[Infallibility does not rest on the Pope at all times.]
BUT INFALLIBILITY SHALL NOT REST ON ANYONE WITHOUT THE POPE WITH HIM. THE COLLEGE OF BISHOPS CAN BE INFALLIBLE ONLY IF THE POPE IS WITH THEM. THE CATECHETICAL MANUAL COULD BE INFALLIBLE ONLY AFTER THE POPE APPROVED IT BY APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY.
NO POPE, NO INFALLIBILITY AT ALL. NOT WITHOUT PETER. INFALLIBILITY IS GIVEN TO THE CHURCH UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF PETER. NOT WITHOUT PETER AND HIS SUCCESSOR.
[Moreover, what the SSPX reject are teachings that goes contrary to what the Church have taught and declared Dogmatically.]
THAT IS JUST AN ALIBI TO FIND JUSTIFICATION FOR YOUR LUCIFERIAN REBELLION. EVERY SCHISMATIC AND PROTESTANT HAS REASONS AND ALIBI TO JUSTIFY THEMSELVES. THE SSPX AND LEFEBVRE HAS LOST ANY CREDIBILITY ON THAT MATTER WHEN IT AIMED ITS GUN ON THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER.
[They do not question the Pope as successor of Peter.]
HYPOCRISY.
[With that, the SSPX pray that the Pope continue to fight for the True Faith.]
THE POPE IS ALREADY SUCH THEY ARE JUST TOO PROUD LIKE SATAN TO ACCEPT THAT THEY ARE IN THE WRONG AND THAT THE POPE IS RIGHT AFTER ALL.
[Do not be confused with the Anglicans. While the Anglican kept their own structure separate from the Church --- (a true sign of disobedience); the SSPX does not desire to have a new structure but only to continue what the Church have Infallibly taught throughout the times.]
ReplyDeleteTHAT IS ONCE AGAIN HYPOCRITICAL. YOU ARE ALREADY HAVING YOUR OWN STRUCTURE AND ORGANIZATION. ACTUALLY YOU ARE ALREADY INFILTRATING LOCAL DIOCESES WITHOUT COMMUNION WITH THE LOCAL BISHOPS AND ARE ESTABLISHING COMMUNITIES AGAINST THE KNOWLEDGE AND APPROVAL OF THE LOCAL BISHOPS.
WE KNOW YOUR ACTIVITIES. YOUR CLAIMS ARE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU ARE DOING IN THE GRASSROOTS.
[Because of their desire to continue what the Church have brought to the world, they are scorned and declared to be disobeying the Pope.]
HA, HA, HA... NOW YOU ARE APPEALING TO PITY. AFTER YOU PRIDEFULLY ACCUSED THE POPE OF NOT AFFIRMING THE FAITH OF THE CHURCH IT IS HYPOCRITICAL OF YOU TO CLAIM THAT YOU ARE IN OBEDIENCE WITH HIM. HA, HA, HA...
[Father Abe, cite one false Dogmatic teaching of Vatican 1 that Vatican II have corrected.]
WHY SHOULD I? BOTH VATICAN I AND VATICAN II ARE IN HARMONY WITH THE OTHER. BUT THE SSPX IS VIOLATING VATICAN I FOR ITS DISOBEDIENCE TO THE POPE.
JUST BY TEACHING THAT THE POPE IS NOT AFFIRMING THE FAITH OF THE CHURCH IS ALREADY A HERESY AGAINST THE DOGMA OF VATICAN I.
[Why then continuing what the Church clearly taught is a sin?]
VATICAN II NEVER CONTINUE SOMETHING THAT THE CHURCH TEACHES AS A SIN. NEVER EVER.
[ Correction does not mean schism.]
ReplyDeleteBut ordaining Bishops without papal mandate in the Latin rite IS a SCHISMATIC act:
"Schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him." (CIC 751)
"Both the Bishop who, without a pontifical mandate, consecrates a person a Bishop, and the one who receives the consecration from him, incur a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See." (CIC 1382)
THAT'S WHY LEFEBVRE WAS EXCOMMUNICATED AND LOST THE FULLNESS OF HIS CATHOLIC UNITY DESPITE HE WAS NOT IN FORMAL SCHISM.
[Infallibility does not rest on the Pope at all times.]
So who is infallable now? Lefebvre? Excuse me the promise of the Holy Spirit is given to the Sucessor of Peter, not to that Lefebvre:
"That the Roman church HAS NEVER ERRED; NOR WILL IT ERR TO ALL ETERNAL, the Scripture bearing witness."
Pope Greogry VII, Dictatus Papae
For the Holy Spirit WAS PROMISED TO THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER not so that they might, by his revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles.
Indeed, their apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well THAT THIS SEE OF ST. PETER ALWAYS REMAINED UNBLEMISHED OF ANY ERROR, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren"
Pastor Aeternus, Vatican I
Vatican II Further Supplemented affirmed the authority of the Pope DESPITE HE IS NOT SPEAKING EX CATHEDRA:
"This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking."
Vatican II, Gaudium et Spes
[THAT IS ONCE AGAIN HYPOCRITICAL. YOU ARE ALREADY HAVING YOUR OWN STRUCTURE AND ORGANIZATION. ACTUALLY YOU ARE ALREADY INFILTRATING LOCAL DIOCESES WITHOUT COMMUNION WITH THE LOCAL BISHOPS AND ARE ESTABLISHING COMMUNITIES AGAINST THE KNOWLEDGE AND APPROVAL OF THE LOCAL BISHOPS.]
ReplyDeleteTHE LOCAL BISHOPS DOES NOT PROVIDE THE TLM, EVEN IF THE FAITHFUL IS ASKING FROM THEM. SO THEN FATHER, IT IS NOT US WHO IS NOT IN LINE WITH THE CHURCH BUT THE BISHOPS DO NOT PROVIDE WHAT THE FAITHFUL REQUESTED OF THEM. YOU ALREADY AFFIRMED THAT THE TLM IS THE LAWFUL AND OFFICIAL MASS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND HAS NOT BEEN ABROGATED.
IN THE NOVUS ORDO WE WERE MADE TO DIP THE HOST IN THE CHALICE. THE SAME NOVUS ORDO WHERE PRIESTS ARE SPEAKING OF THINGS NO LONGER IN LINE WITH BIBLICAL TEACHING. OUR PARISH PRIEST DECLARED THERE WAS NO MIRACLE IN THE FEEDING OF CHRIST OF FISH AND LOAVES. AND WHICH NOVUS ORDO ARE YOU REFERRING FATHER? THERE ARE A MANY VARIATIONS OF NOVUS ORDO.
IN YOUR DEFIANCE OF THE WISDOM OF THE CHURCH WHO HAVE PROVIDED UNIFORMITY THROUGH THE TLM, THE BISHOPS BROUGHT THE NOVUS ORDO WHICH NOW IS BEING CELEBRATED WITH A MANY ABUSE.
SO THEN FATHER, THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT TLM BUT THE PRACTICING OF THE AUTHENTIC FAITH OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
NOW THEN, YOU MAKE ANY JUDGMENT OF THE POPE AS INFALLIBLE. ARE YOU NOW TELLING US THAT INFALLIBILITY RESIDES WITH THE POPE "AT ALL TIMES"? THERE ARE GUIDELINES FOR THE POPE TO EXPRESS HE IS USING THE INFALLIBLE POWER OF THE CHURCH. ALSO FATHER, WHY THEN DO YOU NOT ENCOURAGE OR ENFORCE THE FAITHFUL TO TAKE THE HOST BY KNEELING AND THROUGH THE TONGUE -- WHICH IS WHAT THE WISH OF THE HOLY FATHER? SEE NOW, YOU SEEM TO ONLY APPLY INFALLIBILITY WHENEVER IT SUITS YOUR POSITION BUT FREE TO IGNORE IF IT DOES NOT SUIT YOURS.
THE INFALLIBILITY POWER OF THE POPE DOES NOT SERVE TO GO AGAINST THE FAITH OF THE CHURCH OR TRADITION.
NOW YOU WANT TO CLAIM THAT THE CONTINUING OF FAITH IS JUST AN ALIBI. WHAT THEN? YOU SEEM TO BE SUCCUMBED TO YOUR OWN MISJUDGMENT AGAINST THE SSPX.
SO I SAY ONCE AGAIN FATHER, WE PRAY FOR THE POPE AND THERE ARE SSPX PILGRIMS GOING TO VATICAN TO GREET THE POPE. WE ARE READY SERVANTS OF THE POPE TO ENFORCE THE FAITH BUT WE CANNOT BE AN AGENT OF CONFUSION BY DESTRUCTION OF THE FAITH.
AS SAID, ATHANASIUS FORMED HIS OWN ORGANIZATION WHEN HIS RELATION WITH THE VATICAN WAS SEVERE AND UNDER JUDGMENT OF EXCOMMUNICATION, THE SAME ATHANASIUS CONTINUE TO PROVIDE THE SACRAMENTS OF THE CHURCH. THIS IS THE SAME ROUTE THAT LEFEBVRE CHOSE, NOT TO REJECT THE POPE'S AUTHORITY BUT ONLY TO CONTINUE WITH PRIESTS AND BISHOPS WHO SHALL KEEP THE FAITH AS DOGMATICALLY DECLARED BY VATICAN 1.
THE LATE POPE WAS MISINFORMED JUST AS YOU SPREAD MISINFORMATION AGAINST THE SSPX. I READ YOUR COMMENTS AGAINST SSPX OF NOT DEFENDING THE CHURCH AGAINST RH BILL. THAT FATHER IS NO LONGER TEMPERED WITH REASON BUT OF CARICATURE AND PREJUDICE.
[IT IS THE SSPX WHO ARE ADULTERATING THE TLM WITH THEIR CANONICAL DISOBEDIENCE AND LITURGICAL REBELLION. ]
ReplyDeleteHOW DID THE SSPX ALDULTERATE THE TLM? THE MISSAL IS PUBLISHED AND YOU CAN EVEN ASK A COPY. GO TO THEIR WEBSITE OR VISIT THEIR MASS CENTER AND ASK A COPY. THEN TELL ME WHICH PART THEY ADULTERATED.
SEE FATHER. YOU ARE NO LONGER IN LINE WITH REASON BUT ONLY CAST SUPERFLOUS ACCUSATIONS AGAINST SSPX.
http://www.sspx.org/miscellaneous/can_obedience_oblige_us_to_disobey.htm
The Word Pope does not rest on a personality. The Word Pope comes with it functions that he is oblige to exercise.
No pope is above the Deposit of Faith. And, when a Pope is no longer in line with that Faith, we cannot walk with his path.
What then if we lived at the time of Pope Honorius I? Catholicity does not simply reside by recognition of the Pope but more so on exercising the Faith as Revealed by the Holy Spirit.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07452b.htm
And in addition to these we decide that Honorius also, who was pope of elder Rome, be with them cast out of the holy Church of God, and be anathematized with them, because we have found by his letter to Sergius that he followed his opinion in all things, and confirmed his wicked dogmas".
YOU AFFIRMED THAT THE TLM IS THE OFFICIAL AND LAWFUL MASS AND HAS NEVER BEEN ABROGATED. THEREFORE, BY SUPREME LAW OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IT IS OUR MASS. THEN NOW I ASK YOU SIMPLE QUESTIONS:
1) DO YOU KNOW HOW TO CELEBRATE THE TLM?
2) DO YOU PROVIDE THE TLM?
AND SINCE IT WAS NOT ABOGATED, THEN BY WHAT MEANS ARE YOU REQUIRED BY LAW TO CELEBRATE?
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3104.htm#article5
ReplyDeleteReply to Objection 2. Man is subject to God simply as regards all things, both internal and external, wherefore he is bound to obey Him in all things. On the other hand, inferiors are not subject to their superiors in all things, but only in certain things and in a particular way, in respect of which the superior stands between God and his subjects, whereas in respect of other matters the subject is immediately under God, by Whom he is taught either by the natural or by the written law.
Reply to Objection 3. Religious profess obedience as to the regular mode of life, in respect of which they are subject to their superiors: wherefore they are bound to obey in those matters only which may belong to the regular mode of life, and this obedience suffices for salvation. If they be willing to obey even in other matters, this will belong to the superabundance of perfection; provided, however, such things be not contrary to God or to the rule they profess, for obedience in this case would be unlawful.
[http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3104.htm#article5
ReplyDeleteReply to Objection 2. Man is subject to God simply as regards all things, both internal and external, wherefore he is bound to obey Him in all things. On the other hand, inferiors are not subject to their superiors in all things, but only in certain things and in a particular way, in respect of which the superior stands between God and his subjects, whereas in respect of other matters the subject is immediately under God, by Whom he is taught either by the natural or by the written law.
Reply to Objection 3. Religious profess obedience as to the regular mode of life, in respect of which they are subject to their superiors: wherefore they are bound to obey in those matters only which may belong to the regular mode of life, and this obedience suffices for salvation. If they be willing to obey even in other matters, this will belong to the superabundance of perfection; provided, however, such things be not contrary to God or to the rule they profess, for obedience in this case would be unlawful.]
YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE SUMMA IS SATANIC.
IT IS NOWHERE STATED BY ST. THOMAS AQUINAS IN THAT QUOTE THAT THE DECISION OF THE ECUMENICAL COUNCIL PROMULGATED BY THE POPE SHOULD BE DISOBYED?
WHERE DID ST. THOMAS STATE THERE THAT THE POPE MUST BE DISOBEYED IN LITURGICAL MATTERS?
WHERE DID ST. THOMAS STATE THAT THE POPE MUST BE DISOBEYED IN CANONICAL MATTERS SUCH AS ORDINATION OF BISHOPS?
[HOW DID THE SSPX ALDULTERATE THE TLM? THE MISSAL IS PUBLISHED AND YOU CAN EVEN ASK A COPY. GO TO THEIR WEBSITE OR VISIT THEIR MASS CENTER AND ASK A COPY. THEN TELL ME WHICH PART THEY ADULTERATED.]
ReplyDeleteHA, HA, HA... SO YOU ARE THINKING THAT YOU HVE NOT ADULTERATED THE TLM BECAUSE YOU ARE USING THE MISSAL. ADULTERY IS ROOTED IN INFIDELITY AND DISOBEDIENCE TO THE VICAR OF CHRIST AND NOT SIMPLY DEPENDENT ON THE MISSAL. YOU ARE ONLY LIKE SATAN QUOTING THE SCRIPTURES WITHOUT MISTAKES BUT THE HEART IS FULL OF DISTORTION.
YOU ARE PRETENDING TO BE GENUINE CATHOLICS BUT IN REALITY YOUR HEARTS ARE FULL OF VENOMS AGAINST THE POPE AND THE LOCAL BISHOPS.
[SEE FATHER. YOU ARE NO LONGER IN LINE WITH REASON BUT ONLY CAST SUPERFLOUS ACCUSATIONS AGAINST SSPX.]
YOU DO NOT SEE IT BECAUSE YOU ARE BLIND. EVEN IF YOUR SSPX ARE BLATANTLY DISOBEYING THE POPE IT IS OK FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE BLINDED YOURSELF. YOU PRETEND TO BE AGAINST THE PROTESTANTS WITHOUT REALIZING THAT THE SSPX IS ACTUALLY A PROTESTING GROUP AGAINST THE AUTHORITY OF THE SAME CHURCH FOUNDED BY JESUS. YOU AND THE PROTESTANTS BELONG TO THE SAME DEVIL.
[The Word Pope does not rest on a personality.]
ReplyDeleteTHAT IS IDIOTIC. THE WORD POPE IS ALWAYS ATTACHED WITH THE PERSON OF THE ONE SITTING ON THE CHAIR OF PETER. WHEN YOU ARE SPEAKING OF THE TERM YOU ARE NOT SPEAKING OF AN ABSTRACT IDEA BUT A CONCRETE PERSON - THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER. IF YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE ABSTRACT THEN USE 'PAPACY'.
[The Word Pope comes with it functions that he is oblige to exercise.]
IDIOT. LOOK AT YOUR STATEMENT 'COMES WITH IT FUNCTIONS'... FUNCTIONS COMES ONLY WITH THE PERSON. WITHOUT THE PERSON THEN THERE WILL BE NO FUNCTIONS. THAT IS WHY IT IS STUPID TO REMOVE THE PERSON.
IS THIS THE KIND OF STUPIDITIES TAUGHT IN SSPX?
[No pope is above the Deposit of Faith.]
THE POPE IS THE SUPREME GUARDIAN AND CARETAKER OF THE DEPOSIT OF THE FAITH BEARING THE AUTHORITY OF CHRIST AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
THE SSPX AND LEFEBVRE ARE NOT ABOVE THE POPE. THEY ARE PIECE OF SHIT IN COMPARISON WITH THE POPE.
THE FACT THAT THE POPE IS NOT HIGHER THAN THE DEPOSIT OF THE FAITH IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO REJECT HIM IN FAVOR OF THE WACKY OLD FOOL LEFEBVRE AND JOIN THE SOCIETY OF THE POPELESS FOOLS.
THE DEPOSIT OF THE FAITH CONTAINS THE SUMPREME AND UNIVERSAL AUTHORITY OF THE POPE IN THE CHURCH. BUT IT DOES NOT CONTAIN THE AUTHORITY OF SSPX AND OF LEFEBVRE - THE WACKY OLD FOOL.
[And, when a Pope is no longer in line with that Faith, we cannot walk with his path.]
THERE IS NO POPE THAT IS NOT IN LINE WITH THE FAITH. NEVER EVER.
BESIDES, YOU ARE BECOMING A LIAR HERE. YOU ARE TELLING THAT YOU RECOGNIZE THE POPE, THAT YOU ARE IN COMMUNION WITH HIM, THAT YOU RECOGNIZE HIM AS THE VICAR OF CHRIST AND SUCCESSOR OF PETER... NOW YOU SUDDENLY REVEAL YOUR TRUE COLORS. YOU ARE TALKING OF A POPE THAT IS NOT IN LINE WITH THE FAITH. SO WHO IS IN LINE WITH THE FAITH THEN? THE SSPX AND LEFEBVRE? EXCUSE ME. THE SOUL OF LEFEBVRE IS ALREADY ENJOYING THE FIRE OF HELL RESERVE FOR THE REBELS AND TRAITORS AGAINST THE POPE WITH THE LIKES OF ARIUS, NESTORIUS, LUTHER AND LUCIFER.
[What then if we lived at the time of Pope Honorius I?]
ReplyDeleteDID POPE HONORIUS TEACH HERESY? POPE HONORIUS NEVER TAUGHT ANY HERESY. ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE USING PROTESTANT ARGUMENT AND IT SHOWS HOW IGNORANT YOU ARE OF CHURCH HISTORY. HERE IS OUR TAKE ON POPE HONORIUS:
Monothelites, as they grew in numbers and influence over the ensuing years, seized upon Honorius' confession of "one will of our Lord Jesus Christ" as confirmation that the Pope believed with them that Christ had no human will. Newman and other commentators have noted that Honorius' letters to Sergius are not doctrinal definitions ex cathedra; thus they are outside the scope of infallibility defined by the First Vatican Council.
That is true, but, even more to the point, a look at Honorius' exact words shows that while he did use a formula--"one will"--that was later declared heretical, he used it in a sense that implied the orthodox belief.
This was picked up as early as 640 by Pope John IV, Honorius' successor, who pointed out that Sergius had asked only about the presence of two opposing wills. Honorius had answered accordingly, speaking, says Pope John, "only of the human and not also of the divine nature." Pope John was right. Honorius assumed the existence of a human will in Christ by saying that his nature is like humanity's before the Fall. No one would claim that before the Fall Adam had no will. Thus Honorius's speaking of Christ's assumption of a "faultless" human nature shows that he really did believe in the orthodox formula of two wills in Christ: one divine, one human, in perfect agreement.
The Third Council of Constantinople was thus in error when it condemned Honorius for heresy. But a Council, of course, has no authority except insofar as its decrees are confirmed by the pope. The reigning Pontiff, Leo II, did not agree to the condemnation of his predecessor for heresy; he said Honorius should be condemned because "he permitted the immaculate faith to be subverted." [Carroll, 254]
This is a crucial distinction. Honorius probably should have known the implications of using the "one will" formula; he could have found out by writing a letter to Sophronius of Jerusalem. But he was no heretic.
The anti-papists got the wrong guy. It seems incredible that so many readers of Honorius's letters, from Patriarch Sergius to Hans Kng, see only what they want to see in Honorius's "one will" formula. We should thank God that this poor old pope saw fit to explain himself. Rarely outside of the homoousios/homoiousios controversy at the First Council of Nicaea has so much hinged on so few words.
Since this case seemed to be the best one the anti-infallibilists could turn to, I became an infallibilist, a Catholic with faith in the pope as the Vicar of Christ and successor of St. Peter. The Church will live beyond the trials of these days as it did those of Honorius's day. That bare fact may seem abstract and impenetrable in the convulsions of our age, yet it is our unshakable guarantee.
cf. http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9409fea2.asp
THE COUNCIL THAT CONDEMNED HONORIUS HAS NO AUTHORITY TO CONDEMN HIM. THEIR DECISION WAS NOT SUPPORTED BY THE SUCCEEDING POPES. HONORIUS WAS ACTUALLY FOUND NOT GUILTY OF THE CHARGE HURLED AGAINST HIM.
YOU SEE, YOU ARE ON LEAGUE WITH THE ANTI-PAPACY REASONING OF THE PROTESTANTS. I TOLD YOU THE SSPX IS POSSESSED BY THE SAME DEMON WHO POSSESSED LUTHER AND HIS MINIONS.
[Catholicity does not simply reside by recognition of the Pope but more so on exercising the Faith as Revealed by the Holy Spirit.]
THIS IS NOT CATHOLIC TRADITION. THIS IS SATANIC TRADITION. THE CHURCH IS FOUNDED ON PETER AND WITHOUT PETER AND HIS SUCCESSOR THE CATHOLICITY OF THE CHURCH SHALL CRUMBLE.
THAT SSPX TEACHING IS SATANIC.
[http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07452b.htm
ReplyDeleteAnd in addition to these we decide that Honorius also, who was pope of elder Rome, be with them cast out of the holy Church of God, and be anathematized with them, because we have found by his letter to Sergius that he followed his opinion in all things, and confirmed his wicked dogmas".]
THE 6TH COUNCIL OF CONSTANTINOPLE CONDEMNED THE MONOTHELITE HERESY. IT CONDEMNED HONORIUS AS ONE OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE DECLARED ANATHEMA. BUT THIS DID NOT HAPPEN WITH THE APPROVAL OF POPE ST. AGATHO, THE SUCCESSOR OF HONORIUS, WHO DIED SEVERAL MONTHS EARLIER BEFORE THE NEWS OF THE COUNCIL REACHED ROME. THEN POPE LEO II CLARIFIED THE LANGUAGE CONCERNING HONORIUS. THE POPE CLARIFIED THAT HONORIUS HAD NOT ENDORSED THE MONOTHELITISM OF SERGIUS, BUT HAD FAILED IN HIS DUTY TO CONDEMN IT. OFFICIALLY THEREFORE, HONORIUS WAS CONDEMNED FOR HIS NEGLIGENCE BUT NOT FOR HERESY.
[YOU AFFIRMED THAT THE TLM IS THE OFFICIAL AND LAWFUL MASS]
ReplyDeleteNO, NO, NO... I DO NOT AFFIRM THAT. I DO NOT AFFIRM THAT TLM IS "THE" OFFICIAL AND LAWFUL MASS. THE TLM IS ONLY ONE OF THE OFFICIAL AND LAWFUL RITES OF THE MASS IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
THAT STATEMENT IS HERETICAL. THE TLM IS NOT "THE" MASS. THE BYZANTINE MASS IS EQUAL IN DIGNITY AND VALIDITY WITH TLM AND SO ARE THE OTHER RITES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
[AND HAS NEVER BEEN ABROGATED.]
I DON'T CARE IF IT IS ABROGATED OR NOT. THE CHURCH HAS PROVIDED OFFICIAL AND LAWFUL MASSES FOR THE FAITHFUL THROUGHOUT THE CENTURIES BUT THE CHURCH IS NOT OBLIGATED TO GIVE ONLY THE TLM.
[THEREFORE, BY SUPREME LAW OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IT IS OUR MASS.]
WRONG. IT IS ONLY ONE OF MANY RITES OF THE MASS. THE MASS IS NOT TLM. TLM IS ONLY ONE OF SEVERAL RITES OF THE MASS.
[ THEN NOW I ASK YOU SIMPLE QUESTIONS:
1) DO YOU KNOW HOW TO CELEBRATE THE TLM?]
OF COURSE, BECAUSE I DO CELEBRATE IT AND I CELEBRATE THE PAULINE MASS AS WELL.
[2) DO YOU PROVIDE THE TLM?]
READ MY ANSWER TO QUESTION 1.
[AND SINCE IT WAS NOT ABOGATED, THEN BY WHAT MEANS ARE YOU REQUIRED BY LAW TO CELEBRATE?]
IT WAS NOT ABROGATED BUT PAUL VI ORDERED THAT THE PAULINE MASS BE GENERALLY CELEBRATED AND IT WAS FOLLOWED BY THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH EXCEPT THE WACKY OLD FOOL LEFEBVFE AND HIS MINIONS OF FOOLS.
THE POPE BEING THE BEARER OF THE KEYS OF HEAVEN CAN ALLOW OR DISALLOW A LITURGICAL RITE FOR VALID REASONS. THE TLM WAS NOT ABROGATED BUT IT WAS DISALLOWED FOR A TIME TO PROMOTE THE PAULINE MASS WHICH IS SIMPLER, SHORTER, MORE UNDERSTANDABLE AND MORE PRACTICAL TO CELEBRATE. AND THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH ACCEPTED IT EXCEPT THE WACKY OLD FOOL AND HIS FEW FOLLOWERS.
[THE LOCAL BISHOPS DOES NOT PROVIDE THE TLM, EVEN IF THE FAITHFUL IS ASKING FROM THEM.]
ReplyDeleteDO YOU KNOW THE REASON WHY? BECAUSE OF THE SSPX.
THE BISHOPS ARE AWARE THAT THE COMMUNITIES WHERE TLM IS CELEBRATED THE SSPX ARE INFILTRATING LIKE TERMITES. SO, THEY HAVE VALID PASTORAL REASON TO BE WEARY IN GIVING PERMISSION.
[SO THEN FATHER, IT IS NOT US WHO IS NOT IN LINE WITH THE CHURCH BUT THE BISHOPS DO NOT PROVIDE WHAT THE FAITHFUL REQUESTED OF THEM.]
THE BISHOPS ARE NOT VIOLATING THE NORMS OF THE CHURCH BECAUSE THEY ARE PROVIDING MASSES FOR THE PEOPLE. THEIR DUTIES ARE TO PROVIDE THE SACRAMENTS, NOT TO PROVIDE ONE RITE ONLY.
THE SSPX ARE AT FAULT BECAUSE THEY DEMAND ONE RITE ONLY. THAT IS DEMONIC. THE CHURCH IS NEVER A ONE-RITE CHURCH. NEVER-EVER.
[YOU ALREADY AFFIRMED THAT THE TLM IS THE LAWFUL AND OFFICIAL MASS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND HAS NOT BEEN ABROGATED.]
EXCUSE ME. I RECOGNIZE THE TLM AS ONE OF THE LAWFUL AND OFFICIAL RITES OF THE CHURCH BUT IT IS NOT 'THE' LAWFUL AND OFFICIAL MASS OF THE CHURCH. DON'T INCLUDE ME IN YOUR DELUSIONS.
[IN THE NOVUS ORDO WE WERE MADE TO DIP THE HOST IN THE CHALICE.]
SO, WHEN YOU DID THAT DID YOUR SOUL REACH THE PINNACLE OF HELL? HAVE YOU MET SATAN WHILE YOU WERE DIPPING THE SACRED BODY OF THE LORD TO HIS CONSECRATED BLOOD?
[THE SAME NOVUS ORDO WHERE PRIESTS ARE SPEAKING OF THINGS NO LONGER IN LINE WITH BIBLICAL TEACHING.]
I HAVE HEARD THE SAME THING FROM THE HOMILIES OF SSPX. WHEN I WAS STILL A SEMINARIAN I WENT TO THEIR MASS AND THE PRIEST WAS SAYING THAT 'BECAUSE OF THE PRESENT CRISIS IN THE CHURCH WE ARE JUSTIFIED IN NOT OBEYING THE POPE...". IMAGINE, THAT. THAT IS HERETICAL.
[OUR PARISH PRIEST DECLARED THERE WAS NO MIRACLE IN THE FEEDING OF CHRIST OF FISH AND LOAVES.]
THE SSPX PRIEST IS TEACHING THAT THE POPE FELL INTO HERESY AS WELL AS THE ENTIRE COUNCIL AND THEREFORE THE SSPX IS THE LAST BASTION OF ORTHODOXY. THAT IS HERETICAL.
[AND WHICH NOVUS ORDO ARE YOU REFERRING FATHER? THERE ARE A MANY VARIATIONS OF NOVUS ORDO.]
THE VARIATIONS IS IN YOUR MIND. THERE IS ONLY ONE PAULINE MASS AND THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE OFFICIAL MISSAL.
[IN YOUR DEFIANCE OF THE WISDOM OF THE CHURCH WHO HAVE PROVIDED UNIFORMITY THROUGH THE TLM, THE BISHOPS BROUGHT THE NOVUS ORDO WHICH NOW IS BEING CELEBRATED WITH A MANY ABUSE.]
ReplyDeleteHA, HA, HA... DEFIANCE OF THE WISDOM OF THE CHURCH. HEY, IDIOT. NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE CHURCH DID SHE IMPOSED A 'ONE RITE ONLY' POLICY. NEVER EVER. THE CHURCH IS ALWAYS MULTI-RITES CHURCH. THE LATIN RITES AND THE GREEK RITES AND THE ANTIOCHENE RITES WERE ALWAYS EXISTING SIDE BY SIDE FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL. THEY ARE ALL EQUALLY VALID AND EQUALLY OFFICIAL AND EQUALLY LICIT. SO STOP SPREADING YOUR STUPIDITIES AROUND. HA, HA, HA...
THE TEACHING OF HAVING ONE RITE ONLY IS HERETICAL AND ANTI-TRADITION. THAT IS WHY THE SSPX IS HERETICAL.
[SO THEN FATHER, THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT TLM BUT THE PRACTICING OF THE AUTHENTIC FAITH OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.]
THE AUTHENTIC FAITH OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THAT THE HOLY MASS CAN BE CELEBRATED IN VARIOUS RITES. NOT IN TLM ONLY. HA, HA, HA...
[NOW THEN, YOU MAKE ANY JUDGMENT OF THE POPE AS INFALLIBLE.]
O NO, NO, NO... I NEVER STATED THAT ANY JUDGMENT OF THE POPE IS INFALLIBLE. O NO, NO, NO... READ MY TEXTS CAREFULLY. HE, HE, HE...
[ARE YOU NOW TELLING US THAT INFALLIBILITY RESIDES WITH THE POPE "AT ALL TIMES"?]
HA, HA, HA... THE GIFT OF INFALLIBILITY IS GIVEN TO THE CHURCH UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE. GIVE ME AN INFALLIBLE DOCTRINE THAT WAS DECLARED BY THE CHURCH EX CATHEDRA WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE POPE.
THE HERESY THAT YOU AND SSPX ARE PROPOSING IS THAT INFALLIBILITY CAN BE EXERCISED WITHOUT THE POPE. NO, NO, NO... WITHOUT THE POPE NO INFALLIBILITY CAN BE EFFICACIOUS.
[THERE ARE GUIDELINES FOR THE POPE TO EXPRESS HE IS USING THE INFALLIBLE POWER OF THE CHURCH.]
O YES. BUT THAT GUIDELINES REFERS TO THE POPE NOT TO SSPX OR LEFEBVRE. HA, HA, HA... IT IS ALWAYS POINTING TO THE POPE. THAT IS WHY, NEVER WITHOUT THE POPE.
[ALSO FATHER, WHY THEN DO YOU NOT ENCOURAGE OR ENFORCE THE FAITHFUL TO TAKE THE HOST BY KNEELING AND THROUGH THE TONGUE -- WHICH IS WHAT THE WISH OF THE HOLY FATHER?]
BECAUSE THE WISH OF THE HOLY FATHER IS A WISH. IT IS NOT A COMMAND. WE ARE NOT STUPID AS TO CONSIDER THE WISH AS A COMMAND. THE PROBLEM WITH YOU IS THAT YOU ARE LIKE MICKY MOUSE, YOU ARE WISHING UPON THE STARS WITHOUT LOOKING AT REALITY. BETTER FOR YOU TO WORSHIP IN DISNEY LAND.
AS REGARDS KNEELING, ALL CATHOLICS ARE KNEELING BEFORE RECEIVING THE HOLY EUCHARIST RIGHT AT THE 'LAMB OF GOD'. AND THE POPE ALLOWED COMMUNION BY THE HAND. SO THERE ARE SOME WHO PRERERS COMMUNION BY THE TONGUE AND SOME BY THE HAND. BOTH ARE APPROVED. THERE IS NO DOGMA THAT SAYS COMMUNION IS BY TONGUE ONLY.
[SEE NOW, YOU SEEM TO ONLY APPLY INFALLIBILITY WHENEVER IT SUITS YOUR POSITION BUT FREE TO IGNORE IF IT DOES NOT SUIT YOURS.]
HA, HA, HA... I THINK YOU ARE CRAZY. YOU ARE THROWING AND THROWING THE WORD INFALLIBLITY EVEN ON THINGS THAT IT IS NOT PROPER TO APPLY SO. HA, HA, HA... VERY PATHETIC.
[THE INFALLIBILITY POWER OF THE POPE DOES NOT SERVE TO GO AGAINST THE FAITH OF THE CHURCH OR TRADITION.]
ReplyDeleteOF COURSE, THAT IS WHY THE POPE AND THE VATICAN II EFFECT CHANGES ON NON-DOGMATIC MATTERS SUCH AS THE USE OF LATIN OR COMMUNION BY THE TONGUE.
THE POPE NEVER WENT AGAINST THE TRADITION, NEVER EVER. IT WAS LEFEBVRE AND THE SSPX WHO WENT AGAINT THE TRADITION. THEY BECAME TRAITORS TO TRADITION.
[NOW YOU WANT TO CLAIM THAT THE CONTINUING OF FAITH IS JUST AN ALIBI.]
HA, HA, HA... THE CONTINUITY OF THE FAITH IS EXISTING IN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH UNDER THE POPE. NOT IN THE SSPX FOUNDED BY A WACKY OLD FOOL.
[WHAT THEN? YOU SEEM TO BE SUCCUMBED TO YOUR OWN MISJUDGMENT AGAINST THE SSPX.]
HA, HA, HA... WHAT THEN? THE SSPX IS ROTTING TO THE CORE. FROM TIME TO TIME THEY ARE ABLE TO DECEIVE A FEW PEOPLE. HA, HA, HA... THE CULTS ARE EVEN MORE INCREASING THAN YOUR SOCIETY OF THE POPELESS FOOLS. HA, HA, HA...
[SO I SAY ONCE AGAIN FATHER, WE PRAY FOR THE POPE AND THERE ARE SSPX PILGRIMS GOING TO VATICAN TO GREET THE POPE.]
HA, HA, HA... HYPOCRISY. SHOW OFF SO THAT YOU CAN PRETEND TO BE CATHOLIC AND USE THE PHOTOS TO LURE MORE CATHOLICS TO JOIN YOUR LUNACY. BUT IN REALITY YOU ARE CALLING THE POPE "NOT AFFIRMING THE CATHOLIC FAITH".
[WE ARE READY SERVANTS OF THE POPE TO ENFORCE THE FAITH BUT WE CANNOT BE AN AGENT OF CONFUSION BY DESTRUCTION OF THE FAITH.]
YOU ARE AN AGENT OF SATAN FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FAITH. YOU ARE IN OPEN REBELLION AGAINST THE POPE AND THE BISHOPS AND THE ENTIRE CHURCH. YOUR SOULS ARE IN DANGERS FOR BEING ANTI-POPES.
[AS SAID, ATHANASIUS FORMED HIS OWN ORGANIZATION WHEN HIS RELATION WITH THE VATICAN WAS SEVERE AND UNDER JUDGMENT OF EXCOMMUNICATION, THE SAME ATHANASIUS CONTINUE TO PROVIDE THE SACRAMENTS OF THE CHURCH.]
ReplyDeleteST. ATHANASIUS DIDN'T FORM ANY SPECIAL ORGANIZATION. HE SIMPLY RALLIED AROUND THE CHURCH OF ALEXANDRIA AND THE OTHER BISHOPS AND PRIESTS OF THE CHURCH TO FIGHT THE HERETICS.
ST. ATHANASIUS FOUGHT THE HERETICS NOT THE POPE. AND THE POPE FOUGHT THE ARIANS NOT ST. ATHANASIUS. DON'T DISTORT HISTORY.
[THIS IS THE SAME ROUTE THAT LEFEBVRE CHOSE, NOT TO REJECT THE POPE'S AUTHORITY BUT ONLY TO CONTINUE WITH PRIESTS AND BISHOPS WHO SHALL KEEP THE FAITH AS DOGMATICALLY DECLARED BY VATICAN 1.]
O NO, NO, NO... ST. ATHANASIUS DIDN'T FORM A GROUP NOT IN COMMUNION WITH THE BISHOP OF ROME. NEVER. OTHERWISE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN EXCOMMUNICATED IF HE ORDAINED BISHOPS CONTRARY TO THE ESTABLISHED CANON THEN.
THE CLAIM OF SSPX IS ACTUALLY ESSENTIALLY CONTRARY TO VATICAN I:
3. Therefore whoever succeeds to the chair of Peter obtains by the institution of Christ himself, the primacy of Peter over the whole Church. "So what the truth has ordained stands firm, and blessed Peter perseveres in the rock-like strength he was granted, and does not abandon that guidance of the Church which he once received" [47]. [PASTOR AETERNUS chap. 2, art. 3]
THE POPE CAN NEVER ABANDON THE GUARDIANSHIP OF THE CHURCH. HE STANDS FIRM WITH THE FAITH AND HE IS SUPREME OVER THE WHOLE CHURCH. NOW, WHERE CAN WE FIND SUCH A STATEMENT THAT A SOCIETY MUST BE OBEYED MORE THAN THE POPE DURING A CRISIS?
[THE LATE POPE WAS MISINFORMED JUST AS YOU SPREAD MISINFORMATION AGAINST THE SSPX.]
THE POPE KNOWS EXACTLY THE TRUE COLORS OF YOUR KIND AND OF YOUR REBELLIOUS SOCIETY. WHEN I WAS A YOUNG SEMINARIAN I HAD A POSITIVE VIEW OF YOUR GROUP BUT THE MORE I MEET YOUR FOLLOWERS EITHER IN PERSON OR IN WEB THE MORE I SEE EVIL PRESENT IN YOU.
[I READ YOUR COMMENTS AGAINST SSPX OF NOT DEFENDING THE CHURCH AGAINST RH BILL. THAT FATHER IS NO LONGER TEMPERED WITH REASON BUT OF CARICATURE AND PREJUDICE.]
IT IS TRUE. YOU ARE ONLY HURT. YOU HAVE A LOT OF MATERIALS ABOUT YOUR HALLUCINATORY LITURGICAL ABUSES AND AGAINST THE POPES AND THE COUNCIL BUT ALMOST ZERO IN DEFENSE OF THE CULTURE OF LIFE. WHY? BECAUSE THE MAIN CHAMPION OF CHRISTIAN MORALITY IN THE CONTEMPORARY WORLD IS THE POPE YOU HATE THE MOST - POPE PAUL VI. YOU BELONG TO THE DEVIL.
HOW DID THE SSPX ALDULTERATE THE TLM? THE MISSAL IS PUBLISHED AND YOU CAN EVEN ASK A COPY. GO TO THEIR WEBSITE OR VISIT THEIR MASS CENTER AND ASK A COPY. THEN TELL ME WHICH PART THEY ADULTERATED.]
ReplyDeleteYour priests may follow the rubrics perfectly; your priests may have all the perfect gesture without adding or subtracting anything, but I tell where your ministers are wrong about; you are WRONG BECAUSE YOU ARE CELEBRATING THE MASS WHEN YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO. Your priests are canonically suspended to celebrate masses; yet what they continue to celebrate the mass despite they suspended ad divinis. Even in Summorum Pontificum article 5 section 4, Pope Benedict XVI has declared that "Priests who use the Missal of Bl. John XXIII must be qualified to do so and NOT JURIDICALLY IMPEDED". Cardinal Hoyos has affirmed of the Suspended status of SSPX plus their lack of FULL communion to the Holy See: "The priests of the Society of St. Pius X are validly ordained, but suspended, that is prohibited from exercising their priestly functions because they are not properly incardinated in a diocese of religious institute in full communion with the Holy See". He also adds: "Concretely, this means that the Masses offered by the priests of the Society of St. Pius X are valid, but illicit, i.e., contrary to Canon Law. The Sacraments of Penance and Matrimony, however, require that the priest enjoys the faculties of the diocese or has proper delegation. Since that is not the case with these priests, these sacraments are INVALID".
Going back to the topic: Is it ok to attend in the mass officiated by SSPX? Well he answers this clearly: "While it is true that participation in the Mass at chapels of the Society of St. Pius X does not of itself constitute "formal adherence to the schism" (cf. Ecclesia Dei 5, c), such adherence can come about over a period of time as one slowly imbibes a schismatic mentality which separates itself from the teaching of the Supreme Pontiff and the entire Catholic Church. While we hope and pray for a reconciliation with the Society of St. Pius X, the Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei" cannot recommend that members of the faithful frequent their chapels for the reasons which we have outlined above"
Source: http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/mershon/080711
NOW THAT IS CLEAR OK? YOUR MASSES ARE VALID BUT ILLICIT, (EVEN IF IT IS IN THE TRIDENTINE FORM) BUT CARDINAL HOYOS HAS WARNED US NOT TO ATTEND MASSES UNDER THE AEGIS OF SSPX BECAUSE WE CAN BE INDOCTRINATED WITH SCHISMATIC MENTALITY BY YOUR REBEL AND DISOBEDIENCE TO THE TEACHINGS OF THE POPE AND THE ENTIRE CATHOLIC CHURCH. AND IT IS ALSO CLEAR THAT THE PRIETS AND BISHOPS OF SSPX HAS NO POWER TO FORGIVE THE SINS OF MEN IN THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE AND NO AUTHORITY TO OFFICIATE THE SACRAMENT OF MARTIMONY. DO NOT GO CONFESS YOUR SINS TO AN SSPX PRIESTS- HE HAS NO AUTHORITY TO FORGIVE YOUR SINS.
http://www.sspx.org/miscellaneous/can_obedience_oblige_us_to_disobey.htm
ReplyDeleteLOOKS LIKE LEFEBVRE IS SO DESPERATE TO JUSTISFY HIS DISOBEDIENCE TO ROME. WORSE HE IS ACCUSING THAT THE ROMAN PONTIFF HAS FELL TO HERETIC TEACHINGS. HE CAN SAY ALL THE THINGS HE WANT BUT HE HAS TAUGHT APART FROM THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER, THERE FOR WHAT HE HAS SAID IS NOT INFALLABLE. WORSE HE IS TELLING THE POPE HAS FELL INTO ERROR? THAT IS HERETIC AND AGAINTS TO THE DIVINE PROMISE OF CHRIST TO PETER! THEN CARDINAL RATZINGER WAS CORRECT ABOUT LEFEBVRE TURNING TO LIBERAL. THE POPE IS THE SUPREME TEACHER OF THE MAGESTERIUM, NOT HIM. AND BY REFUSING THAT AUTHORITY WHICH IS HANDED DOWN TO HIM HE HAS BECOME LIBERAL. NOW LET US TAKE A LOOK HOW PREVIOUS POPES AND SAINTS HAVE UNERRED IN TEACHING THAT THOSE WHO DISOBEY THE POPE (REGARDLESS OF THEIR REASON) ARE CONDEMNED:
No man outside obedience to the Pope of Rome can ultimately be saved. All who have raised themselves against the faith of the Roman Church and died in final impenitence have been damned, and gone down into Hell. (Pope Clement VI)
It is an absolute necessity to submit to the Supreme Pastor, to whom it is absolutely necessary for salvation to remain subject. (Pope Leo XIII)
We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. (Pope Boniface VIII)
Blessed Peter received the keys of the kingdom in such a way that all may understand that whosoever shall cut themselves off in any way cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven. Peter is the doorkeeper whom I will not contradict lest, when I come to the gates of Heaven, there should be no one to open them, since he will be my adversary who is proven to have the keys. (St. Bede the Venerable)
Christ Jesus left you this sweet key of obedience; for He left His Vicar, whom you are all obliged to obey until death. And whoever is outside his obedience is in a state of damnation. (St. Catherine of Siena)
I am moved to obedience to that See by this fact especially: that, on the one hand, every enemy of the Christian faith makes war on that See; and, on the other, no one has ever declared himself an enemy of that See who has not also, shortly afterward, shown that he was the enemy of the Christian religion. (St. Thomas More)
He who does not enter by the door of the fold shall not have salvation. The door of the fold is the Catholic Church and union with the Head who represents Jesus Christ. (St. Frances Xavier Cabrini)
How beautiful is the Church of Christ, "the fold of the sheep"! Into this fold of Jesus Christ no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff, and only if they be united to him can men be saved. ( John XXIII)
ReplyDeleteTo be subject to the Roman Pontiff is absolutely necessary for salvation. (St. Thomas Aquinas)
You may no more refuse obedience to the See of Rome than might a child refuse obedience to his natural father. That is my opinion; that is the belief in which, by the grace of God, I shall die. (St. Thomas More)
Those who are obstinate toward the authority of the Roman Pontiff cannot obtain eternal salvation. (Ven. Pope Pius IX)
We teach and declare that this power of jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff is immediate, to which everyone, both pastors and faithful, are bound to submit. (I Vatican Council)
It is error to believe that, if the Pope were a reprobate and an evil man and consequently a member of the devil, he has no power over the faithful. (Council of Constance)
It is error to believe that, if the Pope were wicked and reprobate, then he is of the devil and is not head of the Church Militant since he would not be a member of it. (Pope Martin V)
TAKE A CLOSE LOOK HOW SAINT CATHERINE OF SIENA TOLD US TO OBEY THE POPE DESPITE HE IS "SATAN INCARNATE"
Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him. (St. Catherine of Siena)
All Catholics agree that it is possible for the Pope, even as Pope with an Ecumenical Council, to err in controversies of fact which depend on human testimony; secondly, that it is possible for him, even in universal questions of faith or morals, to err as a private teacher from ignorance, which happens to other teachers. Next, all Catholics agree that the Pope, with an Ecumenical Council, cannot err in framing decrees of faith or morality; secondly, that the Pope, when determining anything in a doubtful matter, whether by himself or with his own particular Council, whether it be possible for him to err or not, is to be obeyed by all the faithful. (St. Robert Bellarmine)
LEFEBVRE CONDMENS VATICAN II DESPITE THE POPE HAS APPROVED VATICAN II: WELL HERE IS HIS ANSWER FROM POPE SAINT NICHOLAS:
If anyone condemns the dogmas or decrees promulgated for the Catholic faith and the correction of the faithful by the one presiding in the Apostolic See, let him be anathema. (Pope St. Nicholas the Great)
It would be possible to multiply indefinitely citations from the best witnesses, all of whom clearly declare the attachment, veneration, submission, and obedience which must be accorded the Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff by those who wish to belong to the one, true, holy Church of Christ in order to obtain eternal salvation. (Blessed Pope Pius IX)
[NOW THEN WE ARE SURE THAT THERE IS NO "ADULTERATION OF THE TLM" BY THE SSPX.]
ReplyDeleteWE ARE SURE THAT THE SSPX IS ADULTERATING THE TLM BECAUSE THE SSPX PRIESTS ARE NOT CANONICALLY AUTHORIZED TO CELEBRATE THE HOLY MASS. THEIR MASSES ARE ILLICIT... ILLEGAL ACTS. THEY ARE ACTS OF DEFIANCE AGAINST THE VICAR OF CHRIST.
[THEREFORE, ONE NEED TO BE CAREFUL OF SUPERFLOUS ACCUSATIONS AND CARICATURE AGAINST ANOTHER.]
WE ARE VERY CAREFUL. WE KNOW THE DEVIL THAT WE ARE ATTACKING. YOU WERE THE ONES WHO COMPELLED US TO REPONSE TO YOU ACCORDINGLY.
[TOO MUCH PRIDE SOMETIMES DIM A PERSON'S UNDERSTANDING AND EVEN DECREASE CHARITY TO LOOK INTO REAL FACTS.]
TELL THAT TO LEFEBVRE, YOUR WACKY OLD FOOL AND WILLIAMSON.
[THAT ALSO TELLS OF YOUR FALSE ACCUSATIONS AGAINST SSPX OF NOT DEFENDING THE CHURCH AGAINST RH BILL.]
IT STILL STANDS. NOT BECAUSE YOU HAD A ONE EVENT MASQUERADE WE ARE ALREADY CONVINCED OF YOUR LIES AND DECEITS. O NO, NO, NO...
[THAT FATHER IS ALREADY A CARICATURE AND MISLEADING OF FACTS.]
THE SSPX IS A LITURGICAL CLOWNS' THEATRICS.
[SAME AS WITH ATHANASIUS, LEFEBVRE ACCEPTED THOSE WHO RALLIED AGAINST THE WICKED CHANGES OF THE FAITH.]
ReplyDeleteTHERE IS NO CHANGE IN THE FAITH. THE USE OF LATIN IN THE CHURCH IS NOT A FAITH AND NEVER WAS A PART OF THE FAITH.
ST. ATHANASIUS REMAINED FAITHFUL TO THE VICAR OF CHRIST. NEVER DID HE UTTER A WORD OF DISOBEDIENCE AND ATTACKS AGAINST THE POPE. HE NEVER ORDAINED BISHOPS OUTSIDE OF COMMUNION WITH THE POPE. LEFEBVRE HAS BECOME A TRAITOR TO THE VICAR OF CHRIST. HE HAS VIOLATED THE DOGMA OF VATICAN I CONCERNING THE SUPREME AUTHORITY OF THE POPE IN THE CHURCH.
[THESE ARE PRIESTS AND BISHOPS WHO SIMPLY WANT TO CONTINUE WITH THE GUIDING FAITH OF THE CHURCH AS DOGMATICALLY AND INFALLIBLY DEFINED BY HER.]
NO DOGMA HAS BEEN CHANGED. AND THEREFORE YOUR ACTIONS ARE MERE ACTS OF REBELLION SIMILAR TO THAT OF LUTHER AND OF LUCIFER. YOU ARE THE LITURGICAL JUDASES OF OUR TIME.
[YOU CALL IT AN ORGANIZATION TO THWART THE CATHOLIC CHURCH --- WHICH IS NO LONGER IN LINE WITH WHAT SSPX IS FIGHTING FOR.]
THAT IS ACTUALLY YOUR LINE BUT OF COURSE LIKE THE SERPENT YOU HAVE TO HIDE YOUR TRUE COLORS AND INTENTIONS.
[THE SSPX IS FIGHTING FOR THE UNEQUIVOCAL FAITH OF THE CHURCH.]
THE FAITH OF THE CHURCH NEVER CHANGE. IT IS LEFEBVRE WHO CHANGED IT BY ADVOCATING DISOBEDIENCE TO THE POPE AND THAT THE SSPX NEED NOT BE UNDER THE CANONICAL JURISDICTION OF THE LOCAL BISHOPS.
WILL YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR FACULTY TO CONFESS? THAT AUTHORITY COMES FROM THE LOCAL BISHOPS AND YOU ARE NOT IN COMMUNION WITH THE LOCAL BISHOPS. YOU ARE A DEMONIC ENTITY.
[IN FACT, THE SSPX DOES NOT TAKE THE SEDEVACANTIST APPROACH.]
THE SEDEVACANTISTS ARE MERE PRODUCTS OF SSPX. THEY ARE YOUR NATURAL OFFSPRING. AFTER FEEDING THEM WITH SO MUCH ANTICS AGAINST VATICAN II, THE PAULINE MASS AND THE POPE THEN THE ULTIMATE COURSE IS TO BE SEDEVACANTISTS. SO YOU CANNOT WASH YOUR WANTS WITH SEDEVACANTISTS.
[YOU CLAIM THAT VATICAN II DID NOT TEACH HERESY YET ITS ADHERENTS ARE READY TO WELCOME PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITH]
ReplyDeleteSO, YOU DON'T WANT TO WELCOME PEOPLE OF OTHER RELIGIONS. YOU WANT TO SEND THEM TO HELL ALTOGETHER. HOW NICE OF YOU. HOW UNCHRISTIAN AND UNMERCIFUL.
WE DO NOT JUST INCORPORATE THEM. WE SIMPLY DIALOGUE WITH THEM AND RESPECT THEM SO THAT BY DOING SO WE CAN CONVINCE THEM OF THE TRUTH OF THE FAITH.
INSTEAD OF HELPING US THE SSPX ARE PUTTING ROADBLOCKS AND INTERPRETING IT NEGATIVELY. THAT IS WHY YOUR GROUP IS PHARISAICAL.
[AND EVEN ADHERE TO THEIR gOD BY THE USE OF INTERFAITH PRAYERS.]
WE NEVER ADHERE TO THEIR GOD UNLESS THEIR GOD IS THE SAME GOD THAT WE DO. SOME OF THEM BELIEVE IN ONE SUPREME BEING. THAT IS SOMETHING TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED. WE DO NOT OPPOSE FOR THE SAKE OF OPPOSING LIKE WHAT THE SSPX IS DOING. THAT IS WHY DIALOGUE IS IMPORTANT.
[IT INCULCATES INDIFFERENTISM WHICH NO LONGER GUIDE THE FAITHFUL.]
WRONG. IT PROMOTES RESPECT AND COOPERATION AMONG VARIOUS RELIGIONS WHILE CATHOLICS ARE AWARE THAT THE CHURCH IS THE TRUE CHURCH AND JESUS IS THE ONLY LORD AND SAVIOR. IT IS THE SSPX THAT CONFUSES THINGS.
[SO, YOU DON'T WANT TO WELCOME PEOPLE OF OTHER RELIGIONS. YOU WANT TO SEND THEM TO HELL ALTOGETHER. HOW NICE OF YOU. HOW UNCHRISTIAN AND UNMERCIFUL.]
ReplyDeleteYOU ARE NOW USING THE REASONING OF ATHIESTS. TSK-TSK-TSK. FATHER WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU?
READ THE BIBLE. GOD KNOWS THE SOUL AND HE IS JUST. HE CAN LEAD THE SOUL TO HIS CHURCH.
WE DO NOT WELCOME THEM BY ALLOWING THEM TO DESECRATE THE HOUSE OF THE LORD AND PRAYING WITH THEM. READ YOUR CATECHISM. REMEMBER, VATICAN II DOES NOT GO AGAINST VATICAN I. PLEASE KNOW YOUR CATECHISM.
YOU'RE MAKING EXCUSES NOW OF RATIONALISM RATHER THAN CHECKING THE INFALLIBLE WISDOM OF THE CHURCH.
[WRONG. IT PROMOTES RESPECT AND COOPERATION AMONG VARIOUS RELIGIONS WHILE CATHOLICS ARE AWARE THAT THE CHURCH IS THE TRUE CHURCH AND JESUS IS THE ONLY LORD AND SAVIOR. IT IS THE SSPX THAT CONFUSES THINGS. ]
FATHER, YOU SEEM TO BE OUT OF TOUCH IN REALITY. AT THE TIME I DON'T KNOW MY FAITH, THAT WAS THE WORD THAT BLURTED OUT FROM PEOPLE AROUND ME. THAT CATHOLIC AND US HAS THE SAME GOD.
SO SEE FATHER. YOU ARE ONLY MAKING EXCUSES OF THE WRONG ACTIONS DONE BY BISHOPS IN THE PAST. TSK-TSK-TSK.
THAT'S ENOUGH FOR NOW.
THERE'S STILL ROOM TO GROW UNDER HE LORD'S GRACE.
[IT IS NOWHERE STATED BY ST. THOMAS AQUINAS IN THAT QUOTE THAT THE DECISION OF THE ECUMENICAL COUNCIL PROMULGATED BY THE POPE SHOULD BE DISOBYED?
ReplyDeleteWHERE DID ST. THOMAS STATE THERE THAT THE POPE MUST BE DISOBEYED IN LITURGICAL MATTERS?
WHERE DID ST. THOMAS STATE THAT THE POPE MUST BE DISOBEYED IN CANONICAL MATTERS SUCH AS ORDINATION OF BISHOPS? ]
FATHER YOU MISUNDERSTOOD THE SUMMA.
IT MEANS ALL CATHOLICS, INCLUDING THE POPE, ACTS TOWARD THE FAITH. THAT WE ARE ALL IN THE SERVICE OF EXERCISING THE TRUE FAITH OF THE CHURCH.
IN LIGHT OF MANY INNOVATIONS ATTACKING THE FAITH, THE PRESERVATION OF WHICH IS IMMINENT AND CALLS A DUTY TOWARD THE POPE AND THE CHURCH. SUCH IS THE DUTY CALLED FOR UNDER LEFEBVRE. MEANING FATHER, THE SUMMA DID NOT TELL US OF SPECIFICS DETAILS IN IT'S APPLICATIONS -- THAT'S MISGUIDANCE ON YOUR PART. IT SIMPLY TELLS US OF JUDGING ACTIONS BASE ON MOTIVES. THE MOTIVE OF LEFEBVRE IS CONTINUING THE FAITH OF THE CHURCH AND ENSURE PRIESTS AND BISHOPS WHO UNDERSTAND THE FAITH AS HANDED DOWN THROUGHOUT THE CENTURIES.
WHAT WAS REJECTED BY THE SSPX ARE THE AMBIGUOUS DOCUMENTS IN VATICAN II, THAT IS OPEN TO MISINTERPRETATION AND HERETICAL IDEAS.
THE NUMBER OF ABUSED MASS TODAY AND MANY INNOVATIONS OF SACRILEGIOUS NOVUS ORDO ONLY MAGNIFY THE WISDOM OF THE CHURCH THAT WAS SO REJECTED BY THE INNOVATORS.
[THAT IS WHY DIALOGUE IS IMPORTANT.]
ReplyDeleteDIALOGUE IS DIFFERENT FROM HOSTING AN EVEN TO ALLOW EACH ONE TO PRAY TO EACH OF THEIR gods.
YOU EQUATE GOD to their god. AND YOU CALL THAT RESPECT.
II Corinthians 6:14 Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness?
http://www.olrl.org/doctrine/ecumenism_hay.shtml
Now people who have seen the organized interfaith prayers had the idea that ours and theirs is the same. This is true around my circle of friends. Truly an injustice done against God.
Now a certain Bishop allowed gay's parade in Sta. Cruzan. Tsk-tsk-tsk. And you associate those with SSPX? :D
I was also surprised one time of a parish allowing altar girls and having the girls dance during the "Our Father".
Hahaha. Totally turning the mass into a concert a theatrical show.
May God have mercy on our weakness.
God will act in His own time.
[THAT IS WHY DIALOGUE IS IMPORTANT.]
ReplyDelete[DIALOGUE IS DIFFERENT FROM HOSTING AN EVEN TO ALLOW EACH ONE TO PRAY TO EACH OF THEIR gods.]
HOSTING AN EVEN WHEREIN PEOPLE OF VARIOUS FAITH ARE PRESENT IS A MORALLY GOOD ACT. IT IS A MANIFESTATION OF LOVE OF NEIGHBOR. THE TEACHING OF LEFEBVRE IS FULL OF HATRED AND DIVISION, PHARISAICAL IN NATURE.
ALLOWING OTHERS TO PRAY IN FREEDOM IS GOOD. NOT ALLOWING OTHERS TO PRAY IN FREEDOM IS EVIL BECAUSE IT IMPOSES. THE MINDSET OF LEFEBVRE IS SIMILAR TO THAT OF ISLAM. HE IS A TALIBAN PRETENDING TO BE CATHOLIC.
[YOU EQUATE GOD to their god. AND YOU CALL THAT RESPECT.]
WE NEVER EQUATE OUR GOD WITH THEIR GOD. OUR GOD IS CLEARLY OUR GOD. EVEN ST. PAUL RECOGNIZE THE PRESENCE OF THE ONE GOD IN THE PARTHENON OF ATHENS. THE PROBLEM WITH YOU IS THAT YOUR LEADER IS NOT FILLED WITH THE SAME SPIRIT OF ST. PAUL.
[II Corinthians 6:14 Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness?]
ST. PAUL IS SPEAKING OF INJUSTICE. THAT WE DO MUST NOT CONDONE THE EVIL OF THE PAGANS. BUT ST. PAUL NOWHERE TEACHES THERE THAT CHRISTIANS MUST NOT RESPECT AND TOLERATE THE FAITH OF OTHERS. NO, NO, NO... DON'T IMPOSE THE EVIL OF LEFEBVRE ON ST. PAUL. HE IS NOT AS EVIL-INTENT AS YOUR POPELESS SOCIETY.
[Now people who have seen the organized interfaith prayers had the idea that ours and theirs is the same.]
ReplyDeleteYOU ARE IMPOSING YOUR OWN NARROW-MINDEDNESS ON OTHER PEOPLE. NOT ALL PEOPLE HAVE A LOW LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING AS YOU HAVE.
[This is true around my circle of friends.]
BIRDS OF THE SAME FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER.
[Truly an injustice done against God.]
THE GOD WHO ORDERED US TO LOVE OUR ENEMIES AND NEIGHBORS IS NOT EVIL-INTENT AS YOU ARE.
[Now a certain Bishop allowed gay's parade in Sta. Cruzan. Tsk-tsk-tsk. And you associate those with SSPX? :D]
I ASSOCIATE WITH SSPX THE LUCIFERIAN REBELLION OF SATAN.
THAT CERTAIN BISHOP IS VERY EASY TO CLAIM. A LIAR LIKE YOU HAS NO CREDIBILITY WHATSOEVER TO VALIDATE SUCH A CLAIM. SANTACRUZANS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE MOSTLY NOT CONTROLLED BY THE BISHOPS OR THE PARISH PRIESTS BUT COMMONLY PERSONAL PREROGATIVES OF THE ORGANIZERS IN THE BARRIOS. THE GAYS ARE THE ONES WHO ORGANIZED THE GAY SANTACRUZAN AND THEY DID THAT DESPITE THE PROTESTATIONS OF THE PARISH PRIESTS.
[I was also surprised one time of a parish allowing altar girls and having the girls dance during the "Our Father".]
DANCING DURING THE OUR FATHER IS NOT AS EVIL AS ORDAINING BISHOPS WITHOUT THE AUTHORIZATION OF THE POPE. IMPOSING LATIN ON MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT IS MORE AN ABUSE OF LITURGY THAN THE DANCING OF THOSE GIRLS.
[Hahaha. Totally turning the mass into a concert a theatrical show.]
THE MASS OF SSPX IS MORE OF A THEATRICAL SHOW. IT WAS DONE WITH UTMOST PERFECTION LIKE THE MOVEMENT OF BOLSHEVIKS' ARMY. EVERYTHING IS BY ORDER ACCORDING TO PLAN, IT IS ABSOLUTELY FOLLOWING A SCRIPT BUT BEREFT OF THE SPIRIT THAT IS ARISING FROM COMMUNION WITH THE CHAIR OF PETER.
[May God have mercy on our weakness.
God will act in His own time.]
GOD WILL ACT IN HIS OWN TIME AND HE WILL SEND TO ETERNAL FIRE THE LEGIONS OF REBELLIOUS ANGELS AND THEIR HUMAN COUNTERPARTS HERE ON EARTH. WOE TO THEM WHO REJECTED THE AUTHORITY OF THE VICAR OF CHRIST.
[FATHER YOU MISUNDERSTOOD THE SUMMA.]
ReplyDeleteYOU ARE USING THE SUMMA TO SUPPORT YOUR POSITION THAT IS NOT EVEN IMPLIED BY THE SUMMA. THAT IS FOUL.
[IT MEANS ALL CATHOLICS, INCLUDING THE POPE, ACTS TOWARD THE FAITH.]
THE POPE DEFINITELY ACTS TOWARD THE FAITH AND WALKS IN THE LIGHT OF FAITH. TO INSINUATE OTHERWISE IS LUNACY.
[THAT WE ARE ALL IN THE SERVICE OF EXERCISING THE TRUE FAITH OF THE CHURCH.]
THE POPE IS AT THE SERVICE OF THE TRUE FAITH. HE IS THE SUPREME GUARDIAN OF THE DEPOSIT OF THE FAITH.
[IN LIGHT OF MANY INNOVATIONS ATTACKING THE FAITH, THE PRESERVATION OF WHICH IS IMMINENT AND CALLS A DUTY TOWARD THE POPE AND THE CHURCH.]
THE POPE AND THE COUNCIL CHANGED WHAT IS CHANGEABLE LIKE THE USE OF LANGUAGE IN LITURGY, VESTMENTS. THESE THINGS ARE NOT DOGMAS AND ARE NOT FAITH AT ALL. THEY ARE NOT ONE OF THE ARTICLES OF FAITH AND NOT INCLUDED IN ANY CREED OF THE CHURCH.
THE POPE MUST BE COMMENDED FOR ALLOWING THE USE OF VERNACULAR. THAT IS A VERY GOOD DECISION. HE ALLOWED THE PEOPLE GREATER OPPORTUNITY TO UNDERSTAND THE BEAUTY OF THE LITURGY AND THE WORD OF GOD.
[SUCH IS THE DUTY CALLED FOR UNDER LEFEBVRE.]
HA, HA, HA... O NO, NO, NO... LEFEBRE SHOWED DISOBEDIENCE AND GAVE A VERY EVIL EXAMPLE TO THE FAITHFUL. HE UNDERMINED THE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE AND THE COUNCIL. BY DOING SO HE MADE HIMSELF SIMILAR TO THE SCHISMATICS AND HERETICS OF THE PAST. GOOD THAT HE DIED EXCOMMUNICATED.
[MEANING FATHER, THE SUMMA DID NOT TELL US OF SPECIFICS DETAILS IN IT'S APPLICATIONS -- THAT'S MISGUIDANCE ON YOUR PART.]
THE SUMMA DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR ASSERTIONS. I AM DEBUNKING YOUR HALLUCINATIONS AND IMPROPER USE OF THE SUMMA. YOU ARE READING FROM IT SOMETHING THAT WASN'T THERE. ST. THOMAS DIDN'T TEACH THAT THE POPE MUST BE DISOBEYED IN FAVOR OF A POPELESS SOCIETY OR OF A WACKY OLD FOOL.
[IT SIMPLY TELLS US OF JUDGING ACTIONS BASE ON MOTIVES.]
THE END DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS.
EVEN IF LEFEBVRE MEANT WELL HIS ACTIONS ARE DEMONIC AND TREACHEROUS AGAINST THE CHURCH. HE DISOBEYED AND FOUGHT THE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE AND THE ECUMENICAL COUNCIL. THAT IS UNDERMINING THE AUTHORITY OF THE CHURCH. THAT IS WHY YOUR SOCIETY IS SATANIC.
[THE MOTIVE OF LEFEBVRE IS CONTINUING THE FAITH OF THE CHURCH AND ENSURE PRIESTS AND BISHOPS WHO UNDERSTAND THE FAITH AS HANDED DOWN THROUGHOUT THE CENTURIES.]
THE LORD JESUS, THE BIBLE AND VATICAN I TAUGHT US THAT IN ORDER TO BE SURE OF BEING IN THE TRUE FAITH ONE MUST BE CONSTANTLY IN COMMUNION WITH THE VICAR OF CHRIST. THE GATE OF HELL SHALL PREVAIL ON SSPX, ON LEFEBVRE AND ON FELLAY BUT NOT ON THE CHAIR OF PETER. INDEED, LEFEBVRE DIED EXCOMMUNICATED WHILE THE POPES ARE SHINING LIKE THE STARS IN THE SKY. JOHN XXIII IS ALREADY BLESSED AND JOHN PAUL THE GREAT IS NEAR BEATIFICATION WITH SO MANY MIRACLES COMING IN. AND PAUL VI HAS BECOME THE PROPHET OF THE GOSPEL OF LIFE IN CONTEMPORARY TIMES. LEFEBVRE IS ROTTING IN SHAME WHILE OUR POPES ARE ACCLAIMED FOR THEIR UNIVERSAL HOLINESS.
[WHAT WAS REJECTED BY THE SSPX ARE THE AMBIGUOUS DOCUMENTS IN VATICAN II, THAT IS OPEN TO MISINTERPRETATION AND HERETICAL IDEAS.]
ReplyDeleteALL DOCUMENTS ARE OPEN TO MISINTERPRETATION INCLUDING THE BIBLE ITSELF. EVEN THE DOCUMENTS OF TRENT ARE OPEN TO MISINTERPRETATION AND HERETICAL IDEAS. SATAN WAS QUOTING AND MISINTERPRETING THE BIBLE TOO. THAT IS WHY YOUR SO-CALLED CONCERN ABOUT INTERPRETATION IS ACTUALLY A MERE ALIBI TO JUSTIFY YOUR OPEN REBELLION AGAINST THE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE.
[THE NUMBER OF ABUSED MASS TODAY]
THE ABUSER OF THE DOGMA OF PAPAL PRIMACY, THE CANON LAW AND THE LITURGY ARE THE SSPX. THEY ARE A MOCKERY OF WHAT THE LITURGY IS. THEIRS IS A LITURGY BEREFT OF ITS SPIRIT. A GROUP GOVERNED BY RITUALS RATHER THAN THE PASTORAL NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE.
[AND MANY INNOVATIONS OF SACRILEGIOUS NOVUS ORDO]
THE NOVUS ORDO IS NOT SACRILEGIOUS. IT IS THE SSPX WHICH IS DEMONIC AND SCHISMATIC.
[ONLY MAGNIFY THE WISDOM OF THE CHURCH THAT WAS SO REJECTED BY THE INNOVATORS.]
THE CHANGES MADE BY THE CHURCH IS ALSO TAKEN FROM TRADITION LIKE THE USE OF VERNACULAR. BEFORE THE RISE OF LATIN THE EARLY CHURCH WAS USING THE COMMON LANGUAGE OF THE PEOPLE. THUS, IT IS THE SSPX THAT REJECTS NOT ONLY THE TRADITION BUT THE AUHORITY OF THE CHURCH THAT UTILIZES THE TRADITION.
[YOU ARE NOW USING THE REASONING OF ATHIESTS. TSK-TSK-TSK. FATHER WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU?]
ReplyDeleteHA, HA, HA... THE MORE YOU WRITE THE MORE YOU ARE SHOWING THE STUPIDITIES OF SSPX. HA, HA, HA... ATHEISTS DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. IT IS THEREFORE INCOMPATIBLE TO THEM THE PRACTICES OF PRAYING WITH OTHER RELIGIONS.
[READ THE BIBLE. GOD KNOWS THE SOUL AND HE IS JUST. HE CAN LEAD THE SOUL TO HIS CHURCH.]
GOD LEAD THE SOUL TO HIS CHURCH THROUGH PREACHING AND TEACHING AND BY SENDING HIS APOSTLES AND DISCIPLES TO TALK WITH OTHER PEOPLE. GOD WORKS THROUGH HIS MINISTERS. AND GOD PROMISED THAT HIS PROPHETS AND MINISTERS SHALL BE UNDERSTOOD IN VARIOUS LANGUAGE. GOD DIDN'T PROMISE THAT THEY WILL SPEAK A DEAD LANGUAGE THAT FEW CAN UNDERSTAND.
[WE DO NOT WELCOME THEM BY ALLOWING THEM TO DESECRATE THE HOUSE OF THE LORD AND PRAYING WITH THEM.]
NEVER DID WE ALLOW THEM TO DESECRATE OUR HOUSE OF THE LORD. YOU ACCUSATION ON ASSISI HAVE NO VALID FOUNDATION. NO PAGAN IMAGES WERE ALLOWED INSIDE THE BASILICA AND THEY WERE NOT PUT ON THE SACRED ALTARS OF THE SAME CHURCH.
THE REAL DESECRATION OF THE HOUSE OF GOD IS THE REFUSAL TO OBEY THE STEWARD OF THE HOUSE OF GOD... THE POPE. REBELLION IS THE GREATEST SIN OF LUCIFER AND OF ADAM AND OF ALL HERETICS AND SCHISMATICS. REFUSAL TO ACCEPT THE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE IS THE ROOT OF HERESY AND SCHISM. AND THAT IS WHAT THE SSPX HAS.
[READ YOUR CATECHISM.]
THE CATECHISM TELLS US TO OBEY THE POPE AND SUBMIT TO HIS AUTHORITY. NEVER DID THE CATECHISM TELL US TO FOLLOW ANY WACKY OLD FOOL WHO FOUNDED A POPELESS SOCIETY.
[REMEMBER, VATICAN II DOES NOT GO AGAINST VATICAN I.]
OF COURSE, VATICAN II DOES NOT GO AGAINST VATICAN I BUT THE SSPX IS AGAINST BOTH VATICAN I AND VATICAN II.
[PLEASE KNOW YOUR CATECHISM.]
I KNOW MY CATECHISM. IT IS YOU WHO IS IGNORANT OF YOUR CATECHISM. YOU ARE VIOLATING THE DOGMA OF PAPAL PRIMACY.
[YOU'RE MAKING EXCUSES NOW OF RATIONALISM RATHER THAN CHECKING THE INFALLIBLE WISDOM OF THE CHURCH.]
ReplyDeleteECUMENISM IS NOT RATIONALISM. RATIONALISM IS ACTUALLY REJECTION OF THE AUTHORITY OF THE CHURCH. REJECTION OF DIVINE REVELATION AND EXULTATION OF REASON. THE REBELLION OF LEFEBVRE IS MORE IN LINE WITH RATIONALISM. IT IS BOTH ANTI-POPE AND ANTI-AUTHORITY OF THE CHURCH. YOU ARE POSSESSED BY THE SAME DEMON.
THE INFALLIBLE WISDOM OF THE CHURCH IS FOUND IN THE CHAIR OF PETER AND ITS ECUMENICAL COUNCIL WHICH YOU REJECT.
WE DO NOT SEE ANY WISDOM IN SSPX BUT STUPIDITIES AND FOOLISHNESS. MUCH MORE TREACHERY... THE TREACHERY OF THE SERPENT.
[FATHER, YOU SEEM TO BE OUT OF TOUCH IN REALITY.]
ReplyDeleteTHE SSPX IS OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY. THEY ARE COMPOSED OF FOOLS WHO WANT TO LIVE IN AN ERA THAT IS ALREADY DEAD. LIKE THE MONKS OF MOUNT ATHOS WHO STILL WANT TO USE THE JULIAN CALENDAR AND POLITICAL SYSTEM SO IS THE SSPX. IT IS STAGNANT IN THE PRE VATICAN II ERA. LIKE THE ORTHODOX AND THE ANGLICANS IT WILL ROT IN TIME.
[AT THE TIME I DON'T KNOW MY FAITH, THAT WAS THE WORD THAT BLURTED OUT FROM PEOPLE AROUND ME.]
YOUR CIRCLE OF FRIENDS MOST PROBABLY ARE IDIOTS LIKE YOU. MY FRIENDS ARE WELL VERSED IN THE BIBLE AND THEY CAN DEBATE PROTESTANTS ON VARIOUS ISSUES DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY ARE LAY. THEY CAN QUOTE THE BIBLE IN ENGLISH AND FILIPINO EFFECTIVELY AND WELL VERSED IN THE UNIVERARSAL CATECHISM.
IF YOUR FRIENDS ARE STUPID DON'T INCLUDE US IN YOUR STUPIDITIES.
[THAT CATHOLIC AND US HAS THE SAME GOD.
SO SEE FATHER. YOU ARE ONLY MAKING EXCUSES OF THE WRONG ACTIONS DONE BY BISHOPS IN THE PAST. TSK-TSK-TSK.]
THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN YOUR COMMENT AND THE QUOTE YOU'VE GOT FROM ME. HE, HE, HE... THAT IS A VERY CHEAP SHOT.
YOU ARE ACCUSING A BISHOP OF ALLOWING GAY SANTACRUZAN AND YET YOU CANNOT EVEN GIVE DETAILS ABOUT IT. OF COURSE WE DO NOT TRUST YOUR STATEMENT. YOU ARE AS LIAR AS LEFEBVRE WHO CLAIMED TO BE OPPOSING VATICAN II YET HE SIGNED THE DOCUMENTS. THE IDIOT, WACKY OLD FOOL SIGNED THE DOCUMENTS. HA, HA, HA...
[THAT'S ENOUGH FOR NOW.]
GOOD FOR YOU.
[THERE'S STILL ROOM TO GROW UNDER HE LORD'S GRACE.]
OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION. SINCE YOU ARE OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THEN YOU ARE DOOMED TO ETERNAL FIRE.
GOD WILL APPLY THAT TO THE SSPX.