Pope Benedict XVI elevates the Sacred Chalice containing the Consecrated Blood of the Lord Jesus.
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Father Did NOT Archbishop Bugnini Made some Mistakes In Creating the Novus Ordo?
- Fr. Abe, CRS said...
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JOSEMARIA,
WHAT ARE THOSE MISTAKES?
1. SIMPLIFYING THE MASS AS HE WAS DIRECTED BY THE HOLY FATHER, PAUL VI, WAS NOT A MISTAKE BUT A GOOD JOB DONE.
2. USING THE VERNACULAR IN THE MASS IS BIBLICAL, HISTORICAL, PATRISTIC AND LITURGICALLY SOUND. THAT IS GOOD. IT IS THE DOCTRINE OF 'LATIN ALONE' WHICH IS WRONG. THE CHURCH NEVER APPLIED THE DOCTRINE OF 'LATIN ALONE'.
3. HAVING A SECOND READING IN THE MASS EVERY SUNDAY AND FESTIVITIES IS A GOOD DECISION TOO. AS WELL AS HAVING THE RESPONSORIAL PSALM.
ONLY THOSE WHOSE MIND ARE INFESTED BY THE DEMON OF REBELLIOUSNESS LIKE LEFEBVRE AND THE SSPX CONSIDER THESE THINGS AS MISTAKES OR EVIL. NO, NO, NO, NO... THEY ARE ACTUALLY GOOD.
MUCH MORE, YOUR STATEMENT 'CREATING THE NOVUS ORDO' IS WRONG. THE NOVUS ORDO IS MADE EXACTLY LIKE THE TLM. IT IS ACTUALLY A SIMPLIFIED VERSION OF THE TLM:
1. Entrance Procession
2. Kissing of the Altar
3. Sign of the Cross
4. Greeting
5. Penitential Rite
6. Kyrie
7. Gloria
8. Prayer
9. Readings:
a) First Readings mostly from Old Testament
b) Responsorial Psalms from the Psalter of David
c) Second Readings from the Epistles
d) Alleluia
e) Gospel
10. Sermon or Homily
11. Creed
12. Prayer of the Faithful
13. Offertory & Prayer Over the Gifts
14. Preface
15. Sanctus
16. Anaphora or Canon
17. Pater Noster
18. Agnus Dei
19. Holy Communion
20. Final Prayer
21. Blessing
22. Kissing of the Altar
23. Processional
TELL ME, WHICH OF THAT ARE BAD,EVIL OR NOT FOUNDED ON SACRED TRADITION? ARE THE PSALMS NOT FOUNDED ON TRADITION? HOW ABOUT THE PRAYER OF THE FAITHFUL?
EVERY SINGLE DETAIL OF NOVUS ORDO COMES FROM TLM OR OTHER LITURGICAL TRADITION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. LEFEBVRE IS JUST TO SENILE TO RECOGNIZE THEM.
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![ST. JEROME EMILIANI [1486-1537]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6dKQTchkJaA/R0lo013dyBI/AAAAAAAAB_4/XzUAPDESwwQ/s1600/St.+Jerome+in+prayer,+small_1.jpg)
Father,
ReplyDeleteI have a question with regards to the English translation of the Roman Missal (in which a new or revised i've read will be released soon).
Why is it that the response when the priest says "the Lord be with you," "and also with you?" I have notices in masses European languages like in Spanish, the response is "Y con tu espiritu" which is faithful to the Latin text "Et cum spritu tuo." It is an error in translation thus the new revision?
And one friend told me that that is heretical. ;))
Thank you.
Dear Glenn,
ReplyDeleteIn every translation there is always a problem to be considered: will you be following the text literally word for word or you will get the substancial meaning or, in case of difficulty, the approximate meaning of the text.
The translators decided not to follow the too literal translation. They didn't commit evil or something illegal like what Lefebvre did who ordained Bishops against the Canon Law and contrary to the expressed will of the Pope. The translators only offered their expertise.
Obviously, their translation is good but it could be better. So now there is a new edition to improve the previous ones. Even the TLM took centuries of polishing before it reached its present state.
DEFINITELY IT IS NOT HERETICAL. IF YOU SAY: "The Lord be with you" and the other answered: "And also with you"... THAT IS NOT HERETICAL. ITS GOOD. If the celebrant says: "Satan be with you..." THAT IS HERETICAL.
YOU SEE, THE SSPX AND THE SEDEVACANTISTS ARE VERY UNREASONABLE FOLKS.
Why Don't You Please Read This,It's About the difference Between the Traditional Latin Mass and The Novus Ordo:
ReplyDeletehttp://lastpapist.blogspot.com/2008/12/in-pick-and-choose-atmosphere-theres.html
I DO NOT RECOGNIZE THE AUTHORITY OF THAT BLOGGER. THE POPE WHO IS THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER AND VICAR OF CHRIST, THE SUPREME AUTHORITY IN THE CHURCH HERE ON EARTH WHOSE AUTHORITY CAN BIND AND LOOSE IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH IS THE ONE I RECOGNIZE AS MY SUPREME PONTIFF.
ReplyDeleteI PUT MY TRUST IN CHRIST SPEAKING THROUGH HIS VICAR, NOT ON ANY BLOGGER AROUND.
THE NOVUS ORDO IS A TRUE AND VALID RITE OF THE HOLY MASS.
Thanks for the response father and my apologies for some typo errors in my first post. I admit I didn't proof read prior to posting but you got me clearly eventhough.
ReplyDeleteI've been browsing SSPX sites and they are with the pope but it some conditional aspects. I also have seen their SSPX Asia site and their Philippine page bears a photo of the pope. How valid are the sacraments being administered by this group Father?
T
WELCOME GLENN,
ReplyDeleteTHEY ARE PUTTING THE PHOTOS OF THE POPE AS A BAIT TO LURE CATHOLICS TO THINK THAT THEY ARE IN COMMUNION WITH THE POPE BUT ONCE YOU READ THEIR POSITIONS THROUGH AND THROUGH IT IS FULL OF ANTI-POPE POISONS.
THEIR MASS IS VALID BUT ILLICIT. THEY ARE ILLEGALLY DONE. THAT IS EVIL. BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE MANDATE TO CELEBRATE THE MASS OR PERFORM ANY SACRAMENTS. WE PRIESTS ARE NOT ONLY ORDAINED, WE HAVE THE MANDATE OR A FACULTY FROM OUR BISHOPS TO CELEBRATE THE MASS AND TO CONFESS AND TO GIVE THE OTHER SACRAMENTS. THEY DON'T HAVE IT.
AVOID THEM. THEY ARE REBELLIOUS LOT. THEIR AESTHETICS ARE MADE OF GOLD BUT IN THEIR HEARTS FULL OF MALICE AND HERESIES.
But What About Communion in The Hand? Altar Rails Abolished?
ReplyDeleteCOMMUNION IN THE HAND IS ALSO PART OF THE TRADITION OF THE CHURCH. IT WAS ALSO A PREVIOUS PRACTICE OF THE CHURCH. COMMUNION ON TONGUE IS NOT A DOGMA OF THE CHURCH.
ReplyDeleteALTAR RAILS ARE NOT ESSENTIAL TO OUR HOUSES OF WORSHIP. THE MASS IS STILL THE SACRIFICE OF CHRIST WITH OR WITHOUT ALTAR RAILS. DON'T DOGMATIZED WHAT IS NOT.
Have You Read Sacramentum Concilium Carefully?
ReplyDelete(Because It Is NOT Anti-Latin nor "Latin Alone",but Strongly Encourages It Mostly 90% of the Time and Recommends The Vernacular only in The Liturgy of The Word)
OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAVE NOT READ IT CAREFULLY. IT IS NOT Sacramentum Concilium BUT 'SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM.
ReplyDeleteOF COURSE, I HAVE READ IT. THAT DOCUMENT IS NOT ANTI-LATIN AND IT IS NOT ANTI-VERNACULAR ALSO. THAT IS THE REASON WHY I LOVE BOTH. I CELEBRATE THE LATIN MASS IN BOTH TLM AND PAULINE MASS, AND I CELEBRATE IN VERNACULAR ALSO.
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS NOT READ IT AND SEEMS TO BE PREFERRING TO BE A TRAITOR TO IT.
Queen Sofia received communion from the Pope standing and by hand during the consecration of the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona (wherein the photo above of the pope elevating the chalice was taken). I thought then that there was a sort of protocol that communion administered by Pope Benedict XVI should be received by tongue and kneeling.
ReplyDeleteAs for me I take it by tongue but I am not against the use of hands. As long as your hands are clean enough then so be it.
I AGREE WITH YOU GLENN.
ReplyDeleteThat's Right I Should Call It SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM Sorry!
ReplyDeleteI Have Father Z to Support My Case:
"The Second Vatican Council mandated that Latin remain the language of the Church’s liturgy. But the Council also indicated that the vernacular languages could be used for some parts of Mass for good pastoral reasons. On the other hand, something very different resulted: many people (even some members of the hierarchy) think that the Council abolished Latin and commanded that the vernacular be used in its stead. The fact is that, although the vernacular is unquestionably a great gift to us, Latin is the official language of the Church’s liturgy. The vernacular is now nearly everywhere dominant and practically the exclusive language used, but Latin remains the standard for all liturgical texts."-Introduction to The WDTPRS Series
Now Please Think About It!!
How did the apostles eat the bread during the last supper? Was it by tongue or by hand? Just curious.
ReplyDeleteMY DEAR, PLEASE READ THE STATEMENT OF FR. Z AGAIN. IT IS SUPPORTIVE OF BOTH LATIN AND VERNACULAR:
ReplyDelete["The Second Vatican Council mandated that Latin remain the language of the Church’s liturgy.]
AND IT REMAINS SO.
[But the Council also indicated that the vernacular languages could be used for some parts of Mass for good pastoral reasons.]
DEFINITELY.
[On the other hand, something very different resulted: many people (even some members of the hierarchy) think that the Council abolished Latin and commanded that the vernacular be used in its stead.]
THE HIERARCHY AND THE CLERGY ARE VERY EDUCATED AND INTELLIGENT PEOPLE. THEY ARE NOT IDIOTS. THEY KNOW THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE TEXT OF THE COUNCIL.
VERNACULAR IS NOW WIDELY USED BECAUSE POPE PAUL VI APPROVED THE PAULINE MASS BEING CELEBRATED IN THE VERNACULAR. WE ALL KNOW THAT THE POPE HAS GREATER AUTHORITY THAN THE COUNCIL. BESIDES, THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH OVERWHELMINGLY ACCEPTED AND LOVED THE VERNACULAR. ONLY FEW PREFERRED TO REMAIN IN THE OLD LATIN. THAT IS WHY THE SSPX AND THE SEDEVACANTISTS CANNOT EVEN CONVERT A SINGLE DIOCESE TO RALLY ON THEIR SIDE.
T[he fact is that, although the vernacular is unquestionably a great gift to us, Latin is the official language of the Church’s liturgy.]
SEE, THE VERNACULAR IS A GREAT GIFT. SO THEN LEFEVBRE IS WRONG IN TEACHING THAT THE VERNACULAR SHOULD BE REJECTED. THE PROBLEM WITH THE SSPX IS THAT THEY LOOK AT THE VERNACULAR NOT AS GOD'S GIFT BUT AS SOMETHING EVIL. THEY HAVE A DISTORTED MIND.
UNTIL NOW LATIN IS THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF THE CHURCH.
[The vernacular is now nearly everywhere dominant and practically the exclusive language used,]
OF COURSE, BECAUSE LATIN IS A DEAD LANGUAGE ALREADY. IF THE SSPX PEOPLE WANTS IT TO BE THE DOMINANT LANGUAGE THEY SHOULD SPEAK IT EVEN WHEN THEY ARE SNORING LIKE PIGS. THEY SHOULD SPEAK IT WHEN THEY ARE PARROTING THEIR CRITICISMS OF THE VERNACULAR.
THE FACT THAT THEY THEMSELVES DO NOT SPEAK LATIN IS A PROOF THAT LATIN IS DEAD. IT IS NEITHER PRACTICAL NOR REASONABLE TO USE LATIN AS A DOMINANT LANGUAGE BECAUSE IT IS NO LONGER DOMINANT. THE CHURCH USED LATIN BEFORE AS A DOMINANT LANGUAGE BECAUSE IT WAS THE DOMINANT LANGUAGE THEN. IT WAS THE SAME FOR GREEK AND FOR COPTIC MASSES.
[but Latin remains the standard for all liturgical texts."-Introduction to The WDTPRS Series]
YES, THE CHURCH RETAINS LATIN IN HER SPECIAL LITURGY AND IN OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS. BUT ONLY SCHOLARS READ THE ORIGINAL LATIN AND THOSE FEW WHO ARE INTERESTED. THE MILLIONS OF THE FAITHFUL READ THE DOCUMENTS OF THE CHURCH IN VERNACULAR. EVEN THE SSPX HYPOCRITES ARE READING AND QUOTING THE CHURCH DOCUMENTS IN VERNACULAR AND NOT IN LATIN.
[Now Please Think About It!!]
BEFORE YOU ASK OTHERS TO THINK DO IT FIRST!!!
[How did the apostles eat the bread during the last supper? Was it by tongue or by hand? Just curious.]
ReplyDeleteTHE APOSTLES TOOK THE EUCHARISTIC BODY BY HAND AND PUT IT INTO THEIR MOUTHS.
WELL, THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH THAT BECAUSE THE APOSTLES ARE NOT LAYMEN. THEY ARE THE FIRST BISHOPS AND PRIESTS OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THEREFORE THEY ARE NOT PART OF THE DEBATE ON COMMUNION BY HAND OR ON TONGUE.
Ok I Agree Father Abe on That One Above!
ReplyDeleteHere's One Final Objection: Why NOT "And with Your Spirit" instead of "And also With You"?(The Traditional Form of Greeting at Mass)
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/06/wherein-fr-z-drills-into-and-with-your-spirit-and-makes-a-proposal/
In the Bicol Region where I am staying the vernacular translation is "AND WITH YOUR SPIRIT" [AT SA SAIMONG ESPIRITU]. That is the reason why it is not our problem. That is mostly a problem for the English speaking people but as you know the new edition has been approved and it will soon be implemented. That will be replaced by a more LITERAL TRANSLATION. Once you have it "AND WITH YOUR SPIRIT"... HOPE YOU CAN SWALLOW THAT PHRASE TO THE END.
ReplyDeleteAs I've explained. Both "AND ALSO WITH YOU" AND "AND WITH YOUR SPIRIT" are OK. None of them is evil. They are both good. It so happened that the other one is MORE appropriate. But even though the other version was used NO HERESY WAS TAUGHT OR EXPRESSED. ONLY SATAN CAN FIND EVIL IN SOMETHING AS GOOD AS "THE LORD BE WITH YOU... AND ALSO WITH YOU." Only demons can find evil in that. THAT IS WHY THE SSPX ARE DEMONIC BECAUSE THEY FIND EVIL EVEN OUT OF GOOD THINGS.
In fact the new translation of the phrase: "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you" is now "Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof".
ReplyDeleteGoing back to the Issue of Father Anibale Bugnini- According to The Rhine Flows to Tiber, Anibale Bugnini was only a secretary of the council responsible for the implementation of liturgical reforms. He was not the president of the council.Not to mention there were periti in that council Who was the president and the pertiti? Secret baka pagbintangan niyo naman siya na mason... hehehe.
ReplyDeleteI think it would be unfair if Bugnini will get the huge share of criticism when In fact he was only a secretary. Those greatly involved were the periti and the council President who was appointed by the Pope Himself
As an Altar server I've noticed some altar serving gestures and formations in the TLM that are different from Ordinary Form of the Mass.
ReplyDeleteBut in the Philippines bihira lang ang nag celebrate ng Latin Mass especially sa RCAM.
-keb17
Dea Fathe,
ReplyDeletepahabol naman oh.. Ok lang po ba na sa gumamit ng Drum,elstric guitar at iba pang maingay na instruminto during th Novus Ordo Mass?Maingay kasi feeling ko hindi ako nagsimba parang nasa looob ako ng diskuhan o Bar...
Maraming salamat po...
ANG HALOS LAHAT NG NOVUS ORDO MASS AY ORGAN ANG GINAGAMIT AT HINDI ELECTRIC GUITAR AND DRUMS. EWAN KO KUNG SAANG SIMBAHAN IYANG PINAGSASABI MO.
ReplyDeleteANG GUMAGAMIT NG MGA DRUMS AT ELECTRIC GUITAR SA NOVUS ORDO MASSES AY MGA CATHOLIC CHARISMATICS NA MAHILIG SA GANONG URI NG PAGSAMBA. KUNG AYAW MO NG GANON E DI WAG KANG MAGSIMBA KASAMA ANG MGA CHARISMATICS. HE HE HE... SIMPLE LANG IYON. GAMITIN ANG UTAK.
TUNGKOL NAMAN DUON SA DISCOHAN AT BAR, MAHIYA KA NAMAN SA SARILI MO. ANG MGA CHARISMATIC GROUPS NA GUMAGAMIT NG ELECTRIC GUITAR AY MAGAGANDANG SONGS OF PRAISE AND WORSHIP ANG KINAKANTA AT HINDI PANG DISCO O PANG BAR. SIGURO MAHILIG KANG PUMASOK SA DISCO AT SA BAR KAYA MALASWA ANG UTAK MO. KAHIT NA BUMILI KA NG KANTA NG MGA CHARISMATICS VERY BIBLICAL AT MAGAGANDA. HINDI PANG BAR AT HINDI PANG DISCO KUNDI PANG JOYFUL PRAISE.
Dear Father..
ReplyDeleteAko ay nagtanong lang,patawad po kung sakaling hindi mo nagustuhan ang post ko.Sa totoo lang 14 year old palang ako nag work na ako sa isang bar as a waiter para lang kumita isang taon ako duon ngunit kinuha ako ng aking ina upang umuwi sa amin para ipagpatuloy ko ang pag-aaral ko sa high school at nagpasalamat din ako sa Poong May Kapal na nakaiwas ako sa work na yon.
Baka may time ka na pumunta dito sa St.Vencent De Paul of Mangagoy Bislig City para masaksihan mo..Masakit man nag iyong mga sagot ngunit buong puso po akong nagpapasalamat sa time mo at effort to answer my question.Any way hindi po ako nagpunta dito para sa ugali ng taong sumagot sa tanong ko.Naparito po ako para sa turo ng ating simbhan.
Maraming salamat po...
DONATO PARAS POTONG JR....
Dear Bro. Donato,
ReplyDeleteHindi kita iniinsulto dahil hindi ko kilala ang nagtatanong sakin. Ngayon ko lang nalaman na ikaw yon. Kung nagpakilala ka sakin ay hindi magiging matindi ang sagot ko. Imagine yourself in my situation... that question from an Anonymous is sending signals that our Mass is proper for Disco and Bar. May karapatan akong magalit bilang ministro ng Simbahan at protektor ng Banal na Misa.
Once again, I was not insulting you but I was only responding to the insulting manner of the Anonymous sender who gives malice to the Novus Ordo Mass.
Dear Father,
ReplyDeleteMaraming salamat sa sagot mo,ngunit siguro habang buhay pa ako,hindi po ako titigil sa pag-aaral sa turo ng ating simbahan.
Pls allow me to ask some questions concerning to our liturgy today....Ok lang po ba na gumamit ng mga banda instrument like drum,electric guitar,pumpiyang or cymbals during the NOM?Hindi ba ito violation sa ating Church Magesterium?Ok din po ba na nag Charismatic Worship ay gaganapin inside or during the NOM?tapos tungkol po sa altar server ok lang ba ito na lahat ay mga babae?Hindi ba ito violation sa liturgical law?
Maraming salamat po....
DONATO PARAS POTOONG JR...
DEAR BRO. DONATO,
ReplyDeleteTHE USE OF THOSE INTRUMENTS BY THE CHARISMATICS ARE APPROVED BY THE BISHOPS WHO ACCEPTED THEM AS LOVING FATHERS WHO RECOGNIZED THE SPIRITUAL AND PASTORAL NEED OF THESE PEOPLE.
THE CHURCH HAS THE POWER TO BIND AND TO LOOSE. IF BEFORE THE CHURCH PROHIBITED SOME INSTRUMENTS IT IS NOT IMPERATIVE THAT THEY REMAIN PROHIBITED FOREVER. THE CHURCH ALSO HAS THE POWER TO AUTHORIZE THEIR USE LATER AS PRACTICAL EXIGENCIES DEMAND.
ANG ALTAR GIRLS AY PINAYAGAN DIN. SO AS LONG AS IT IS APPROVED WE CANNOT REJECT IT. I ALSO DON'T LIKE IT SO ALL MY ALTAR SERVERS ARE BOYS. BUT I CANNOT TEACH THAT HAVING ALTAR GIRLS IS WRONG. PRIESTHOOD IS MALE EXCLUSIVE THAT IS CLEAR BIBLICALLY AND HISTORICALLY BUT ALTAR SERVERS IS NOT CANONICALLY AND THEOLOGICALLY EXCLUSIVE FOR MALES.
THE BISHOPS ARE THE LAWMAKERS, JUDGES AND IMPLEMENTORS OF LITURGICAL AND CANONICAL LAWS IN EVERY DIOCESE. DON'T FORGET THAT.
ok father maraming salamat,
ReplyDeleteHow about the Charismatic Worship na gaganapin during the Novus Ordo Mass,ok din yon?Wala yang violation sa Liturgical Law?
DONATO PARAS POTONG JR...
THE CHARISMATICS ARE HAVING MASSES AND SURELY THE PRIEST FOLLOWS THE NOVUS ORDO RITUAL. THEN IF THEY CHOOSE TO SING JOYFUL SONGS AGAIN THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AS LONG AS THEY ARE SINGING THE KYRIE, THE GLORIA, THE SANCTUS... AS PRESCRIBED THERE IS NO PROBLEM. LET US BEAR IN MIND THAT THE CHARISMATIC GROUPS ARE APPROVED GROUPDS IN THE CHURCH. THEY ARE AUTHORIZED BY THE BISHOPS TO PRACTICE THEIR MANNER OF SPIRITUALITY. THE PROBLEM IS IN THE MIND OF THOSE WHO ARE FOND OF THE TRADITIONAL MASS, THEY ARE LIE PHARISEES WHO CANNOT ACCEPT THE DIVERSITY OF THE OTHER.
ReplyDelete