Wednesday, May 11, 2011

HARAPAN DEBATE SUMMARY - PRO-LIFE DEBATERS DEMOLISHED PRO-RH ARGUMENTS

Madonna and Child by Bernardo Daddi

MANILA, May 10, 2011—It was a dynamic discussion on sex education, population and poverty, health issues and the beginning of life as representatives of different sectors debated on Sunday night's "Harapan/ RH Bill: Ipasa o Ibasura" on ABS-CBN.

After the bill's primary author, Albay Rep. Edcel Lagman, kicked off the debate with reasons why the measure ought to be approved, Paranaque Rep. Roilo Golez pointed out serious health factors that made the bill's reproductive health measures objectionable.

Besides stressing the link between contraceptive use and breast cancer according to the World Health Organization and the US-based National Cancer Institute, Golez expressed concern over the perceived protective power of prophylactics against sexually transmitted diseases.

As an example he cited Thailand, where the high contraceptive prevalence rate has not curbed the incidence of AIDS, now numbered at some 600,000 cases.

"Bakit ganon? Kung totoong tama ang RH eh bakit ubod ng laki ang kanilang HIV cases?" he asked.

The solon also presented charts illustrating the downward trend of the country's population growth rate. The Philippines does not need a reproductive health law as a means to arrest population growth, he said, because the growth rate of 3 percent in 1960 has decreased to 1.95 percent in 2010.

When life begins

The protection of unborn people as provided by the Philippine Constitution and the issue of when life begins came up several times, with a lawyer and the physicians from both sides tackling the matter.

"The State shall equally protect the life of the mother and the life of the unborn from conception," said Alliance for the Family Inc. (ALFI) President Atty. Girlie Noche.

"Sinasabi na po ng Constitution [na] may life—life of the unborn from conception. So I think there's no question anymore. There's already life at conception." The lawyer added that her study of the proceedings of the 1986 Constitutional Commission revealed that the members of the body used the terms "conception" and "fertilization" interchangeably.

"So this is a non-issue. Life begins at conception," Atty. Noche added.

The medical aspect was presented by bioethics and embryology professor Dr. Josephine Lomitao, reminding everyone that "the best evidence of the beginning of proof of life should be something objective, therefore scientific."

The OB-Gyne then briefly explained the process of reproduction, ending with "once the fertilized egg or zygote has been formed, it starts to divide. What other proof of life do you want? This division is purposeful, coordinated, and [the zygote] will be unable to implant if it weren't alive because implantation—which other groups claim to be the beginning of life—is a complex process."

The advocates of the bill—titled The Responsible Parenthood, Reproductive Health and Population and Development Act of 2011—have been fighting for revised definitions of terms, specifically the move to make "conception" (thereby "fertilization" too, as per the Constitutional Commission's definitions) synonymous with "implantation."

Rise in population = poverty?

The debate became even more animated when talk shifted to population and poverty. "Mahirap ba tayo dahil marami tayo? That is the question," said former senator and governor Joey Lina. What followed was a zealous exchange of ideas about overpopulation possibly leading to poverty.

After presenting a brief explanation of demographics and standard of living as regards the local scenario, Lina blasted the commonly used reasoning of attributing poverty to an increasing population.

"Tayo ay mahirap hindi dahil sa tao. Tayo ay mahirap dahil ninanakaw ang pera ng bayan. Iyan ang dahilan kung bakit tayo mahirap!" he declared.

"P200 billion [ang] nawawala, according to certain studies. Ang [University of the Philippines nag-conduct ng] study, 30-40 % of our budget is lost due to corruption. So kung 'yung perang ninanakaw sa fertilizer scam, sa mga... NBN deal, diyan sa mga conversion, highways, katakot-takot na road users' tax, kung yung daang bilyong piso na ninanakaw ng mga nanunungkulan ay nagagamit para mapabuti ang kalagayan ng bayan, napatataas ang antas ng edukasyon, nakapagtatayo ng maraming eskwelahan, nakapagtatayo ng maraming ospital at nakakabigay ng mataas na sweldo sa ating mga doktor at nurses, mawawala ang mga problemang 'yan."

School-based sex education

Another explosive topic in the nearly two-hour debate was that of sex education. House Bill 4244 mandates a six-year "Reproductive Health and Sexuality Education" program for all private and public schools.

The bone of contention was whether or not the rights and duties of parents were being undermined by this portion of the measure, which will integrate the said program in several subjects starting with Grade 5 students. Though she believes in the parents' role as primary educators of their children, former legislator Risa Hontiveros-Baraquel asserted that some parents are not willing and able to tackle certain issues with their family, and this is where the school will come in.

Democratic Socialist Women of the Philippines (DSWP) head Elizabeth Angsioco agreed, pointing out that the government's program was being put in place merely as a support to parents.

Fr. Melvin Castro, Executive Secretary of the Episcopal Commission on Family and Life (ECFL), zeroed in on the RH advocates' concurrence that mothers and fathers indeed have the primary duty to educate their young ones.

"Bakit hindi 'yon ang tutukan ng gobyerno? Bakit didiretso ang gobyerno sa intervention sa mga kabataan? Precisely po, sapagka't kung ang mga magulang ang ideal teachers then let's [focus on] the ideal. Kaya 'yun ang ating palakasin.

"'Yung pinagpipilitang State intervention," he added. "Itanong ko lamang po sa mga nagpo-propose ng bill na ito: Pinagdududahan po ba natin ang kakayahan ng mga magulang?"

Afterwards, the legal basis for shooting down the proposed bill was again brought up, as Noche underscored that the Constitution states clearly that "the parents have the primary right and duty to develop the moral character of their children. Ang gobyerno po ay supporting role lamang. Hindi gobyerno ang may karapatan na humubog sa moralidad ng mga bata," the lawyer stressed.

However, the RH bill makes sexuality education mandatory—and in both private and public schools, Noche pointed out. In addition, it is the government—not the parents—who formulate and finalize the program's curriculum. "Gobyerno. Hindi po dito kasama ang mga magulang..."

"At ang hindi ko maintindihan dito, bakit kinakailangang sampung taon pa lamang ay mag-aral na ng sexuality education. From grade 5 to 4th year, so anim na taon. Ano po ito? Kailangan po ba ng PhD para sa sex education?," Noche asked.

Dubious values formation

Among the other protests to the mandated sex education portion of the bill is the absence of values formation that put the lessons in the context of deeply held Filipino family values.

Iloilo Rep. Janette Garin, one of the bill's co-authors, was quick to point out that among the topics in the sex education program was "values formation." However, one of the long-time technical experts involved in monitoring the government's population education/sex education programs asserted otherwise.

Bioethics professor Dr. Angelita Aguirre related that very few are aware that this method-based, values-free kind of sex education has been making its way into school curricula for nearly 40 years, since the late President Marcos' Presidential Decree 79 resulted in the formulation of the "pop ed/sex ed modules" that have been carried out since 1972.

As for specifics when it comes to the proposed bill's program, "Ang tinuturo po ay hindi values education. Nakita po namin ang modules, binasa po namin ito. Wala pong sinasabi doon na mag-asawa ka muna bago ka mag-relasyon. Kung hindi ka na makapagpigil, basta hindi ka magbuntis at hindi ka magkasakit, puwede," Aguirre described.

The doctor explained that it's the content that she and other pro-life groups object to. If the goal is really to help children learn about the reproductive system, it should be taught in Biology, in a scientific context, she said. The emotional, social and spiritual dimensions, she added, should be made part of Character Education. This was her group's recommendation to the Department of Education at a previous time.

"Bakit kailangan mong ituro ng anim na taon? At sa lahat ng subjects—math science literature and everything. And you know, this was patterned after the Sex Information and Education Council in the US, [translated to Tagalog] lang. We saw it. Kung ano yung nasa Amerika, [ginawang Tagalog] lang 'yon," Aguirre pointed out.

Toward the end of the debate, Lina summed up what he had picked up so far, based on the arguments brought out by those in favor of a reproductive health law as a solution to poverty:

"The RH proponents, ang gusto nila, ang solusyon sa kahirapan is to reduce the population growth rate. All your statements are bolstering the argument that we are poor because we are many. That is the premise. That's why we are saying, we are poor not because we are many; we are poor because of the mismanagement of our economy. We are poor because of graft and corruption. If there is proper management of resources just like what's being done in other countries, we will not suffer the fate that we are suffering now. The solution you are offering is not the solution."

Foreign concept

Fr. Castro summed up his position on the RH bill by saying why the country has no need for such a legislative measure.

Palagi nating reference ang ibang bansa sa reproductive health. Iyan ay pag-amin din na isang banyagang konsepto ang RH. Bakit nating pinaggigiitan na yakapin 'yan ng Sambayanang Pilipino [samantalang] nakakubli nga diyan ang.access to "safe" and legal abortion. Bakti natin pinagpipilitan ang isang banyagang konsepto sa isang bansa na tulad natin na likas na maka-pamilya at likas na maka-buhay. We reject the RH bill at huwag nang ipasa 'yang batas na 'yan dahil hindi kailangan ng Sambayanan."

The other speakers for the anti-RH side were George Balagtas of the Pro-Life Coalition of the Philippines, and Dr. Johnrob Bantang, spokesperson of a position paper against the RH bill by individual UP faculty, students and alumni.

Other members of the pro-RH panel were former Health Secretary Esperanza Cabral, Bishop Rodrigo Tano, Chairman of Interfaith Partnership for the Promotion of Responsible Parenthood, UP Center for Women's Studies Director Dr. Sylvia Estrada Claudio, and tour guide and RH supporter Carlos Celdran.

The "Junk the RH bill" side garnered more votes, based on the results of the online and text survey held during the debate. As for 12:40am of May 9, the result was—Ipasa: 34.62% ; Ibasura—65.38%. (Diana Uichanco)

35 comments:

  1. Inde, takot kc ang bakla n mabuo ang bata sa tumbong nya...

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  2. hello Fr. Abe.

    Question ko lang po regarding doon sa isang Obispo na PRO-RH BILL, Catholic po ba Sya?? Please advice. thanks!

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  3. ARE YOU REFERRING TO CARLOS CELDRAN?

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  4. [Question ko lang po regarding doon sa isang Obispo na PRO-RH BILL, Catholic po ba Sya?? Please advice. thanks!]

    HELLO RODEL. HINDI IYON CATHOLIC. HE HE HE... OBVIOUS NAMAN. PEKENG OBISPO YON. SIGURO AGLIPAY O PROTESTANG BISHOP. HE HE HE...

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  5. Yung Obispo? di un catholic, admirer un ni fr. melvin. Kita nyo, cge pakyut at kindat k father.

    @Fr.Abe

    C carlos celdran po cguro tinutukoy ni anonymous, kasi ang sagwa nmn ata po kung si Edcel Lagman ang tinutukoy na bakla... IIEEEWWWW!

    SARAH JANE

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  6. Bleachigo has left a new comment on your post "HARAPAN DEBATE SUMMARY - PRO-LIFE DEBATERS DEMOLIS...":

    Durog ang pro-RH Bill kay Joey Lina.

    Father Abe, alam nio po ba kung anu na ang status ng pag-pasa ngaun ng RH Bill? Sana'y malayo pa iyon ngaun sa pag-pasa. Nung isang linggo ay narinig ko sa balita na pabor si PNOY hanggang ngaun sa RH Bill. Ba't kaya ganun si PNOY? Naalaala ko ung homily ni Fr. Rock nung Maundy Thursday sa OLA Parish. Ang sabi nia po ay "Relihiyosa pa naman ang nanay. At kung indi pa namatay ang nanay, indi sia magiging lider. Ooops! May media ba dito? Sana meron para naman matauhan". Parang indi niya nanay si Tita Cory. Tsk tsk.

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  7. Ano bang kaalaman ni PNOY sa family planning? Matandang bachelor. Papalit-palit nang syota. Parang may identity crisis. Presidente, magpakatotoo ka!

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  8. The all of you are going hypocrites. Even though President Aquino III is pro-RH, he is still a son of Corazon Aquino. Does it mean that if Noynoy is a son of Corazon, he should be controlled by the RCC? If he is a son of Corazon, does it mean that Noynoy doesn't have the choice to be a pro-RH? We have freedom here in the Philippines. We have democracy here in the Philippines. We don't have a state religion. Let Noynoy pick what he wants. It's one of President Aquino III's rights as a Filipino.

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  9. BTW, Father Abe, why you didn't include in this post the quotation of Dr. Sylvia E. Claudio, M.D., Ph.D. from Saint Thomas Aquinas and Father Melvin Castro's reply to that? I wonder why... because it contradicts St. Thomas Aquinas' position as a doctor of the church. Hahahaha. ^_^

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  10. [The all of you are going hypocrites.]

    REALLY? HOW NICE OF YOU. PRAISE THE LORD BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT A HYPOCRITE.

    [Even though President Aquino III is pro-RH, he is still a son of Corazon Aquino.]

    HA HA HA... WHO TOLD YOU THAT PRES. AQUINO III IS NOT A SON OF CORAZON AQUINO? WE ARE NOT SAYING THAT.

    [ Does it mean that if Noynoy is a son of Corazon, he should be controlled by the RCC?]

    THE RCC IS NOT CONTROLLING NOYNOY. THAT IS THE REASON WHY HE IS ATTACKING THE CATHOLIC FAITH. HE IS FREE TO BE A FAITHFUL OR A TRAITOR TO HIS CATHOLIC FAITH.

    TITA CORY FREELY CHOSE TO BE A FAITHFUL CATHOLIC AND NOYNOY FREELY CHOOSES TO BE A TRAITOR CATHOLIC.

    POLITICAL FREEDOM IS BEING TAUGHT AND PRACTICED BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH UNLIKE THE OTHER RELIGION THAT COMMANDS THEIR FOLLOWERS TO VOTE WHAT THEIR LEADER IS CHOOSING FOR THEM. THE CATHOLICS ARE FREE. WE ONLY ISSUE GUIDELINES.

    [If he is a son of Corazon, does it mean that Noynoy doesn't have the choice to be a pro-RH?]

    HE HAS THE CHOICE. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES THAT MAN HAS A FREE WILL AND THEREFORE FREE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL. THE BORN AGAIN ARE TEACHING THAT MAN HAS NO FREE WILL.

    IN OUR CHOICE, HOWEVER, THERE IS GOOD AND EVIL, LIFE AND DEATH. WE ARE ONLY TELLING OUR CATHOLIC FAITHFUL TO CHOOSE WHAT IS GOOD AND AVOID WHAT IS EVIL. TO CHOOSE LIFE OVER DEATH. NOYNOY CHOSE WHAT IS AGAINST LIFE... THAT IS A MORAL EVIL. SO, WE ARE ALSO FREE TO OPPOSE HIS CHOICE BECAUSE HE WANTS TO IMPOSE IT TO ALL OF US IN A FORM OF AN IMMORAL LAW - THE RH BILL.

    [We have freedom here in the Philippines.]

    YES, WE HAVE FREEDOM HERE IN THE PHILIPPINES AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS ONE OF THE MAJOR FACTOR FOR OUR BEING FREE. WE HELPED NINOY AND CORY IN FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM AND REGAINING THE FREEDOM OF THIS COUNTRY WHILE THE BORN AGAIN AND THE IGLESIA NI MANALO SUPPORTED MARCOS.

    [We have democracy here in the Philippines.]

    WE KNOW BECAUSE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HELPED IN DRAFTING OUR PRESENT DAY CONSTITUTION.

    [We don't have a state religion.]

    WE ARE NOT CLAIMING THAT WE ARE THE STATE RELIGION. WHO IS THE DEVIL WHO TOLD YOU THAT THE RCC IS THE STATE RELIGION? WHO TOLD YOU THAT WE HAVE A STATE RELIGION?

    [Let Noynoy pick what he wants.]

    HE CAN PICK WHAT HE WANTS. IF HE WANTS TO PICK A SNAKE AND THROW IT ON YOUR FACE ITS UP TO HIM. HE CAN PICK A POISON. HE CAN PICK A CONDOM, A BRA OR A PANTY OR A PIECE OF BREAD.

    WHO TOLD YOU THAT NOYNOY CANNOT PICK WHAT HE WANTS?

    IF HE CAN PICK WHAT HE WANTS SO ARE THE REST OF THE FILIPINO PEOPLE. FOR THAT REASON WE ARE ALSO FREE TO OPPOSE THE PRESIDENT.

    [It's one of President Aquino III's rights as a Filipino.]

    YES, THAT IS HIS RIGHT. BUT IT IS ALSO OUR RIGHT TO OPPOSE THE RH BILL AND TO PREACH AGAINST IT BECAUSE FOR OUR CATHOLIC FAITH AND MORALS THE USE OF CONTRACEPTIVES IS INTRINSICALLY EVIL AND IMMORAL.

    IF PRES. AQUINO III HAS HIS RIGHTS WE ALSO HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS.

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  11. [BTW, Father Abe, why you didn't include in this post the quotation of Dr. Sylvia E. Claudio, M.D., Ph.D. from Saint Thomas Aquinas and Father Melvin Castro's reply to that? I wonder why... because it contradicts St. Thomas Aquinas' position as a doctor of the church. Hahahaha. ^_^]

    HA HA HA... ACTUALLY IN THAT DEBATE DR. SYLVIA CLAUDIO IS FOUND TO BE AN IDIOT IN CATHOLIC DOCTRINE. HA HA HA... THE AGNOSTIC PRETENDED TO BE KNOWLEDGEABLE IN CATHOLIC MORAL THEOLOGY BUT WAS FOUND OUT IGNORANT OF IT. HA HA HA...

    THE POSITION OF THAT AGNOSTIC WOMAN IS OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY BECAUSE SHE IS QUOTING ST. THOMAS AQUINAS WHEN IN FACT THE DEFINITE STAND OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON THE ISSUE IS NOT BASED ON AQUINAS BUT IN THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AS TAUGHT BY OUR POPES. THE OFFICIAL STAND OF THE CHURCH IS WRITTEN IN THE ENCYCLICAL HUMANAE VITAE BY POPE PAUL VI.

    WHY DON'T YOU PROVIDE THE QUOTE FROM ST. THOMAS AQUINAS AND LET US SEE IF IT WILL SUPPORT YOU.

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  12. Father Arganiosa, the RCC is claiming to be pro-life because it rejects the Reproductive Health Bill. The CBCP, through Tandag Diocese Bishop Nereo P. Odchimar, released a "pastoral letter" entitled "Choosing Life, Rejecting the RH Bill." Do you RC priests really think that supporting the RH Bill is not choosing life? Hahaha okay fayn if you think so. There are soooooo many lives of women who are in danger because of pregnancy (50-50 cases). Why not defend their lives, father Abe? BTW, contraceptives prevents fertilization to take place, it doesn't stop fertilization. It means it doesn't stop the beginning of life for you anti-RH peeps. Hahay. The RC JolliPriests are really JOLLIBEES in SHEEP's CLOTHING. Hahaha. BTW, JolliFather Abe, what is the stand of the current JolliPope on the RH Bill? Hahaha regards to you all JolliAnti-RH peeps and to all JolliCatholics. ^_^

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  13. Saint Thomas of Aquin is a doctor of the church, right? He is even the "angelic doctor" of the church. What is a doctor of the church according to the Catholic Encyclopedia? Here, read this:

    "(Latin Doctores Ecclesiae) — Certain ecclesiastical writers have received this title on account of the great advantage the whole Church has derived from their doctrine."

    Father Abe, I guess you forgot, you just don't know or you're hiding from us what Pope Benedict XV declared on his encyclical letter entitled "Fausto Appetente Die." Well, here is what Pope Benedict XV declared about Saint Thomas of Aquin

    "The Church has declared Thomas' doctrines to be her own."

    On my next comment, I'm going to post the conversation of Fr. Castro and Dr. Claudio about Saint Thomas Aquinas. Well, for short, this is just an introduction so that everyone may know who really St. Thomas of Aquin is for the RCC.

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  14. [Father Abe, I guess you forgot, you just don't know or you're hiding from us what Pope Benedict XV declared on his encyclical letter entitled "Fausto Appetente Die." Well, here is what Pope Benedict XV declared about Saint Thomas of Aquin

    "The Church has declared Thomas' doctrines to be her own."]

    HA HA HA... THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF DEVILS QUOTING THE SACRED SCRIPTURES. THE AGNOSTIC DR. CLAUDIO IGNORANTLY QUOTES THE DOCUMENTS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND TWISTED THEIR MEANING AS YOU ARE DOING NOW WHICH IN EFFECT SHOWS THE STUPIDITY OF BOTH OF YOU.

    THE CHURCH MADE THE TEACHING OF ST. THOMAS HER OWN BUT NOWEHERE IT IS STATED IN THAT PAPAL DOCUMENT THAT THE CHURCH MADE THE "OPINIONS" OF ST. THOMAS HER OWN. THERE LIES YOUR STUPIDITY. YOU STUPIDLY USED THE THEOLOGICAL OPINION OF ST. THOMAS AND WANT TO USE IT AS A DOCTRINE TO BE FOLLOWED... HA HA HA... DREAM ON. HA HA HA

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  15. [Father Arganiosa, the RCC is claiming to be pro-life because it rejects the Reproductive Health Bill.]

    HEY SOMEONE WHO IS ANONYMOUS AND MOST PROBABLY NOT HUMAN, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS PRO-LIFE BECAUSE IT UPHOLDS THE VALUE AND DIGNITY OF LIFE AGAINST CONTRACEPTIONS THAT PREVENT LIFE AND ABORTIONS THAT TERMINATE LIFE. EVEN BEFORE YOUR DEMONIC AND ANTI-LIFE BILL HAVE BEEN CONCEIVED WE ARE ALREADY PRO-LIFE. OUR BEING PRO-LIFE IS NOT DEPENDENT ON THE RH BILL. WE ARE PRO-LIFE EVEN BEFORE THE CONSTITUONS OF THE PHILIPPINES HAVE BEEN DRAFTED AND APPROVED. WE ARE PRO-LIFE EVEN BEFORE THE BIRTH OF EDCEL LAGMAN AND OF YOUR ILLOGICAL DRA. [CULA] CLAUDIO WHO IS AN AGNOSTIC. HA HA HA...

    FOR US CHRISTIANS THE GOD IS THE GOD OF LIFE. JESUS IS THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. YOUR AGNOSTIC DRA. [CULA] CLAUDIO DOESN'T EVEN CARE ABOUT GOD. HA HA HA... AN AGNOSTIC BELIEVES THAT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD IS UNKNOWABLE THAT IS WHY SHE IS NOT SURE THAT THERE IS A GOD SO YOUR BELOVED DRA[CULA] DOESN'T BELIEVE IN BIBLE, IN GOD, IN JESUS... THUS, SHE IS IGNORANT OF OUR FAITH AND OF OUR TEACHINGS. HA HA HA...


    [The CBCP, through Tandag Diocese Bishop Nereo P. Odchimar, released a "pastoral letter" entitled "Choosing Life, Rejecting the RH Bill."]

    OF COURSE. WE REJECT THAT DEMONIC BILL.


    [Do you RC priests really think that supporting the RH Bill is not choosing life? Hahaha]

    HA HA HA... YES, WE DO THINK SO. AND THAT IS OUR OFFICIAL AND FINAL POSITION ON THAT ISSUE. WE REJECT THAT DEMONIC, ANTI-LIFE BILL BECAUSE IT IS AGAINST LIFE. IT PREVENTS AND TERMINATES LIFE IF IT WILL BE IMPLEMENTED AS IT IS. HA HA HA... SORRY FOR YOU.

    [okay fayn if you think so.]

    WE THINK SO AND BE BELIEVE SO AND WE STAND SO!!! SO??? SORRY FOR YOU. HA HA HA...

    [There are soooooo many lives of women who are in danger because of pregnancy (50-50 cases).]

    HA HA HA... HYPOCRITE. YOU CLAIM TO BE CARING ABOUT THE PREGNANT WOMEN WHEN IN FACT YOU DON'T WANT WOMEN TO BE PREGNANT. HA HA HA... HOW ILLOGICAL YOUR REASONING.

    WHAT PREGNANT WOMEN ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT E IN THE FIRST PLACE YOU ARE PREVENTING THE CONCEPTION. HA HA HA... HYPOCRITE. LIAR, LIAR, LIAR.



    [Why not defend their lives, father Abe?]

    WE DEFEND THEIR LIVES. THAT IS WHY WE ARE TELLING THE GOVERNMENT THAT INSTEAD OF BUYING CONDOMS AND PILLS IT INSTEAD USE THE FUNDS TO PROVIDE MORE VITAMINS FOR THE PREGNANT WOMEN, FREE CHECK UPS AND TO ENSURE THAT THE LATEST TECHNOLOGY IS AVAILABLE TO HELP THEM DURING THEIR PREGNANCIES AND DELIVERIES OF CHILDREN. VITAMINS NOT CONTRACEPTIVE PILLS. MEDICINES NOT CONDOMS.


    [BTW, contraceptives prevents fertilization to take place, it doesn't stop fertilization.]

    PREVENTION OF FERTILIZATION IS AS EVIL AS STOPPING FERTILIZATION. DIRECT KILLING AND NOT ALLOWING SOMEONE TO LIVE IS BOTH IMMORAL AND EVIL. HE HE HE...

    [It means it doesn't stop the beginning of life for you anti-RH peeps. Hahay.]

    HAAAY, YOU ARE SO STUPID. STOPPING AND PREVENTING ARE BOTH EVIL. WHEN YOU PREVENT SOMEONE, YOU ALSO IN EFFECT STOPPING HIM OR HER. HA HA HA...


    [The RC JolliPriests are really JOLLIBEES in SHEEP's CLOTHING. Hahaha.]

    REALLY? HA HA HA... BETTER IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING THAN CONDOMIZED FAGGOTS. HA HA HA... CONDOMIST IN WOLVES' CLOTHING. PREVENTERS OF LIFE AND STOPPERS OF LIFE. HA HA HA...


    [BTW, JolliFather Abe, what is the stand of the current JolliPope on the RH Bill?]

    HEY CONDOMIZED PUPPY WHOSE HEAD IS OVERDOSED WITH PILLS THE POPE REJECTS THE RH BILL. HE HE HE... DID I ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? HA HA HA...

    [Hahaha regards to you all JolliAnti-RH peeps and to all JolliCatholics. ^_^]


    THANK YOU TO YOU AND TO ALL WHO ARE LIKE YOU... IMMORAL CONDOMISTS AND SY-PILLISTS. HA HA HA...

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  16. Well, here is it... (the following were translated from Tagalog so that all of us may understand what they said)

    Julius Babao: One of the hottest issues when talking about the RH Bill is "when does life really begin?"

    Karen Davila: Okay, let us ask first the anti-RH side. Father Melvin Castro, when does life really begin?

    Father Melvin Castro: It is clear in the Holy Scripture that in the womb, there's already life and doctor will tell us the scientific basis of this one. There are so many passages, both in the old and new testament that affirms that life comes from there. ...

    (Many pro and anti RH spoke until it's Dr. Claudio's turn)

    Karen: Do you agree that life begins at conception?

    Dr. Sylvia E. Claudio, M.D., Ph.D.: I'm lucky that I am the last to speak at this topic. Father, doctor and Sir George, this is how I'm going to explain it. First of all, in the RCC itself, we can already see it. Majority of their history says that life begins at ensoulment. Saint Thomas Aquinas himself said: "Ensoulment is 40 days for men, 90 days for women." It means men are earlier to have soul than women, that's why it's against the will of women activists. That's why it's not true that it's clear in the Scripture and in the practicum of the RCC what Fr. Castro said. ...

    (After a pro-RH spoke, Karen Davila asjked Fr. Castro if abortion is going to be legal when the RH Bill is going to be passed. Castro didn't answer this straightly but instead replied to the quotation from St. Thomas of Aquin.)

    Fr. Melvin Castro: I would like to react on the quotation from Saint Thomas Aquinas. First of all, Saint Thomas Aquinas is a theologian and he is not the magisterium of the RCC. Consequently, what he taught on the medieval age is not the official teaching of the church. He is not infallible of what he said. ...

    ===========

    That's it, Father Abe.

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  17. [That's it, Father Abe.]

    IS THAT ALL YOU CAN PRESENT? HA HA HA...

    SORRY FOR YOU BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN FR. MELVIN IS CORRECT AND DRA. [CULA] CLAUDIO IS OUT OF CONTEXT. ST. THOMAS AQUINAS WAS GIVING HIS PERSONAL OPINION ON THE ISSUE OF ENSOULMENT BUT HE DIDN'T CLAIM THAT SUCH IS THE TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. NO, NO, NO... YOU ARE FREE TO HALLUCINATE. HE HE HE...

    BESIDES, THE OPINION OF ST. THOMAS WAS GIVEN PRIOR TO THE RISE OF THE DEBATES ON CONTRACEPTION IN THE LIGHT OF CONDOMS AND PILLS. SINCE THEN THE MAGISTERIUM OF THE CHURCH HAS CLARIFIED ITS STAND IN A MORE DEFINITIVE WAY. ACTUALLY, THE STYLE OF DRA[CULA] IN USING ST. THOMAS AGAINST FR. MELVIN IS PATHETIC.

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  18. Father Abe, why make Thomas of Aquin a saint if he had an opinion that is contradicting the official doctrine of the RCC? ☺ ☺ ☺ ♥♥♥~~~♥♥♥ ☺ ☺ ☺

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  19. Father Abe, why make Thomas of Aquin a saint if he had an opinion that is contradicting the official doctrine of the RCC?

    HE HE HE... UNFORTUNATELY, ST. THOMAS DIDN'T CONTRADICT THE TEACHING OF THE CHURCH BECAUSE HE IS ALSO PRO-LIFE AND ANTI-CONTRACEPTION. HE HE HE... IT SO HAPPENED THAT YOUR DRA[CULA] IS IGNORANT OF THE WORKS OF THE TEACHINGS OF ST. THOMAS. HE HE HE... HERE IS ANOTHER STATEMENT OF OUR SAINT, AND MIND YOU WITH PROPER AND ACADEMIC CITATION YAN. HE HE HE...:

    "Nor, in fact, should it be considered a slight sin for a man to arrange for the emission of semen apart from the proper purpose of begetting and bringing up children….the inordinate emission of semen is incompatible with the natural good of preserving the species. Hence, after the sin of homicide whereby a human life already in existence is destroyed, this type of sin appears to take next place, for by it the generation of human nature is impeded." [St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, 3, 122.]

    THERE IT IS. THE EMISSION OF SEMEN MUST NOT BE SEPARATED FROM THE PURPOSE OF BEGETTING CHILDREN. FOR THAT REASON CONDOMIZED SEMEN IS IMMORAL FOR ST. THOMAS. HE TEACHES THAT IF THE SEMEN IS WASTED AND THE GENERATION OF HUMAN NATURE,i.e., THE FORMATION OF THE HUMAN PERSON IS IMPEDED IT IS A SIN.

    AS YOU CAN SEE ST. THOMAS FIRST SHOW THAT HOMICIDE IS EVIL AND THEN AFTER IT THE PREVENTION OF THE SEMEN TO GENERATE HUMAN PERSON. THAT IS A SLAP ON THE FACE OF DRA[CULA] WHO ARGUES THAT CONDOMS AND PILLS WHICH PREVENT THE GENERATION OF HUMAN PERSONS ARE ACCEPTABLE FOR ST. THOMAS AQUINAS.

    THE ISSUE OF THE ENSOULMENT WAS STILL BEING DEBATED DURING THE TIME OF ST. THOMAS AQUINAS. SO, HE DIDN'T CONTRADICT THE CHURCH YET.

    ANOTHER THING, DRA[CULA] IS IGNORANT OF THE FACT THAT BEING A SAINT DOES NOT MEAN "PERFECT" AND BEING "INFALLIBLE". NO, NO, NO... ST. THOMAS WAS LIMITED AND COULD COMMIT THEOLOGICAL MISTAKES. BUT HIS MISTAKES ARE SO MINOR IN COMPARISON WITH THE GREAT CONTRIBUTIONS THAT HE GAVE US IN THE FIELD OF PHILOSOPHY AND THEOLOGY. ESPECIALLY IN HIS FAMOUS ARGUMENTS ON THE EXISTENCE OF GOD.

    OF COURSE, YOUR DRA[CULA] REJECTS ALL TEACHINGS OF ST. THOMAS BECAUSE SHE IS AGNOSTIC. SHE IS ONLY USING A PORTION WHICH SHE THINKS USEFUL FOR HER TO ENJOY CONDOMS AND PILLS USING THE TAXES OF THE BELIEVERS OF GOD. THE DEVIL IS VERY CUNNING YOU KNOW... HE HE HE... IM REFERRING TO SATAN.

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  20. But what Saint Thomas Aquinas said that life begins at ensoulment is opposite to the RCC's official teaching, isn't it? If, then, is it a heresy?

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  21. HA HA HA... WHAT IS THE EXACT STATEMENT OF ST. THOMAS ABOUT ENSOULMENT AND WHAT IS THE OFFICIAL DOCUMENT OF THE CHURCH CONCERNING THE SAME ISSUE. HE HE HE... LET US SEE IF YOU HAVE READ THE REAL DOCUMENTS. C'MMON. GIVE IT TO US. HE HE HE... SHOW US THE REAL DOCUMENTS SHOWING WHAT YOU CLAIM IS TRUE. HE HE HE...

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  22. UNLESS YOU CAN SHOW THAT ST. THOMAS SAYS THAT CONTRACEPTION IS OK THEN THERE IS A VIOLATION OF CHURCH TEACHING.

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  23. Fr. Arganiosa, Fr. Castro confirm on the said debate that Saint Thomas Aquinas said that life begins at ensoulment. Did you really watched the debate or you just listened to the hearsays out there? Hahahahaha. :)

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  24. BTW, Fr. Arganiosa, the magazine of Catholic Answers entitled "This Rock" on volume 2, issue 3 confirmed that Saint Thomas Aquinas believed that life doesn't begin at conception.

    http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/keyword/St.%20Thomas%20Aquinas

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  25. [BTW, Fr. Arganiosa, the magazine of Catholic Answers entitled "This Rock" on volume 2, issue 3 confirmed that Saint Thomas Aquinas believed that life doesn't begin at conception.]

    LIAR, LIAR, LIAR... IT IS NOT STATED BY ST. THOMAS AQUINAS. THERE IS NO STATEMENT OF ST. THOMAS SAYING SUCH A THING. HA HA HA...

    HERE IS WHAT IS PRESENTED THERE... TO TOPIC IS THE ISSUE OF ENSOULMENT:


    Q:“
    Did Aquinas say a baby has no soul until 40 days (for a boy) or 80 days (for a girl) after conception, so abortion is okay before those times?

    A:

    This is only half true. Aquinas did say an unborn baby receives a soul 40 or 80 days after conception, depending on gender. But he also said abortion is a violation of natural law and is always wrong, no matter when a soul may be infused into the developing child's body.

    The 40/80-day view is based on the writings of Aristotle, who said a child becomes human at "formation," the point at which it first "has a human form"--that is, when it looks human. He said this was 40 days for boys and 80 days for girls. Probably this distinction was based on the point at which genitals could be observed on miscarried children. Keep in mind that fetal embryology was then a restricted science; all observations could be made only by the naked eye, the microscope being in the distant future.

    Aquinas accepted the idea of formation, which he said occurs when a child receives a soul. But since abortion violates natural law whether or not the child has a soul, Aquinas taught that abortion is always gravely wrong.

    Today we have better scientific tools than did Aristotle or Aquinas. We know unborn males and females look human at the same time, and we know they are human long before they look human. Modern science verifies that the unborn have a human genetic code from conception, and this is when their humanity begins.

    The ancients did not know about the genetic code, of course--we had to wait for Gregor Mendel, a 19th-century monk for that--and relied on outward appearances to identify species and gender. Appearance was the best test available to them, but it was hardly reliable.

    Aquinas overlooked the fact that the biblical view of the soul cannot be squared with Aristotle's. In Psalm 51:5 David says he was a sinner from conception, but sinfulness is a spiritual quality, so David must have had a spirit, a soul, from conception.

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  26. [Fr. Arganiosa, Fr. Castro confirm on the said debate that Saint Thomas Aquinas said that life begins at ensoulment. Did you really watched the debate or you just listened to the hearsays out there? Hahahahaha. :)]

    PROVE IT THAT FR. CASTRO SAID SUCH A THING. HE HE HE... I DIDN'T REMEMBER HIM SAYING THAT. WHAT I REMEMBER HIM SAYING IS THAT "LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION...LIFE BEGINS AT FERTILIZATION". HE HE HE... HA HA HA... YOU ARE FREE TO HALLUCINATE.

    YOUR LAUGHTER IS NICE. PARA KANG PUNONG PUNO NG CONDOM. HA HA HA... SHAKE NA SHAKE. SHAKE IT BABY.

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  27. AHAHAHA! MAGASAWANG SAMPAL ANG INABOT NI SHAKE IT! PULANG-PULA NA ANG MAGKABILANG PISNGI AH!

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  28. nice father!
    Go, go, go!

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  29. Father Abe, stop lying. Here is the question on "This Rock Magazine, Volume 2, Issue 3" by the Catholic Answers.

    --------------------

    Q: “ST. THOMAS AQUINAS DIDN'T BELIEVE HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION. He taught that ensoulment doesn't occur until several weeks later (delayed animation). How does this square with current Catholic teaching against abortion from the time of conception?”

    A: Notwithstanding his belief in delayed animation and ensoulment, Aquinas still taught that abortion was wrong from the moment of conception. He believed it to be a mortal sin expressive of a homicidal will, even if in the early stages of pregnancy, as he thought, homicide isn't actually committed.

    Aquinas's opposition, then, squares perfectly with the Church's teaching, even if there's a difference between why Aquinas thought abortion was wrong and why Catholic theologians and moralists today think it is.

    Why did Aquinas believe ensoulment happened some time after conception? Because he accepted the science of his day, which taught the theory of the spontaneous generation of life (the idea that life spontaneously arises from non-living matter).

    As applied to human reproduction, this theory suggested the (apparently) non-living elements contributed by each parent--"fetal matter" in the case of the mother and seminal fluid in the case of the father--were transformed from non-living matter successively into vegetative, animal, and finally human life.

    Each of these stages was thought to come about by the infusion of a soul: vegetative life by the infusion of a vegetative soul, animal life by the infusion of an animal soul, and human life by the infusion of a human soul.

    Since, according to Aquinas, the soul is the form of the body--that which gives life and makes an organism the kind of creature it is--if an organism possesses distinctively human qualities, we can concluded it possesses a human soul.

    Because early scientists observed nothing distinctively human at primitive stages of human development (they knew nothing of genetics and possessed no microscopes), it was concluded no human soul was present.

    Modern biology has shown the conceptus does have distinctively human traits. It is living and possesses a human genetic code to guide its growth and development. If Aquinas had had the benefits of this knowledge, his principles would have led him to conclude ensoulment occurs at conception.

    Source: http://tinyurl.com/3jcq4pd

    --------------------

    See, Fr. Abe?!? The "This Rock magazine" by the Catholic Answers confirms that Saint Thomas Aquinas believes that human life doesn't begin at fertilization. You really s*cks, Father Abe. Go back to the seminary again and study theology. Hahahahaha. ;)

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  30. [PROVE IT THAT FR. CASTRO SAID SUCH A THING.]

    You want it again, Fr. Abe? Then, here is it again:

    ------------------------------

    Karen: Do you agree that life begins at conception?

    Dr. Sylvia E. Claudio, M.D., Ph.D.: I'm lucky that I am the last to speak at this topic. Father, doctor and Sir George, this is how I'm going to explain it. First of all, in the RCC itself, we can already see it. Majority of their history says that life begins at ensoulment. Saint Thomas Aquinas himself said: "Ensoulment is 40 days for men, 90 days for women." It means men are earlier to have soul than women, that's why it's against the will of women activists. That's why it's not true that it's clear in the Scripture and in the practicum of the RCC what Fr. Castro said. ...

    (After a pro-RH spoke, Karen Davila asjked Fr. Castro if abortion is going to be legal when the RH Bill is going to be passed. Castro didn't answer this straightly but instead replied to the quotation from St. Thomas of Aquin.)

    Fr. Melvin Castro: I would like to react on the quotation from Saint Thomas Aquinas. First of all, Saint Thomas Aquinas is a theologian and he is not the magisterium of the RCC. Consequently, what he taught on the medieval age is not the official teaching of the church. He is not infallible of what he said. The official teaching of the church is "life begins at fertilization." That is what the church is taking care of.

    Source: http://tinyurl.com/Anti-RHisLoser01

    ------------------------------

    See, father Abe, isn't that clear? Use thy common sense, father. Hahaha. ;)

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  31. Padre, since nilampaso po ng mga Anti-RH ang mga Pro-RH sa "harapan" sa ABS-CBN, eh mukhang magkakaroon po ng "REVENGE OF THE FALLEN". Kasi, grabe ang advertisement ng GMA7 about the Grand Debate at ang masaklap pa po eh, napaka bias ng ADS, pinalilitaw na masama ang simbahan tulad ng sinabi na:

    1. SAGOT SA KAHIRAPAN O LABAG SA TURO NG SIMBAHAN? (bkit? maging ang simbahan ay laban din sa kahit na anong uri o bagay na nagpapahirap sa bayan!)

    2. IPINAKULONG NG SIMBAHAN ANG ISANG RH BILL ADVOCATE. (Kailan? Kailan nagpakulong ang simbahan na ang dahilan ay ang pagiging RH advocate? bkit di sabihin ang kawalanghiyaang ginawa ni Celdran na naging dahilan ng kanyang pagkakakulong?)

    3. PINAGBANTAANG ITITIWALAG ANG PANGULO. (Bakit di sabihing pinagbantaan din ng pangulo na ipakukulong ang mga obispo?)

    MINSAN NA PO NATING PINATUNAYAN NA HINDI TOTOONG MARAMING PILIPINO ANG PABOR SA RHBILL. SANA MULI PO NATIN ITONG PATUNAYAN SA DARATING NA MAY 22.

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  32. KAHIT ANONG PANLOLOKO NILA HINDI NILA MALILIGTASAN ANG KAPANGYARIHAN NG KATOTOHANAN.

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  33. TUNGKOL DUON KAY CARLA "SISA" CELDRAN, HAYAAN MO NA. DAIG PA SA SAMPAL ANG IBINIGAY SA KANYA NI BISHOP BACANI.

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  34. HA HA HA... SHAKE IT IS ALREADY OUT OF HIS MIND, SHAKEN WITH SO MANY CONDOMS AND THEIR STICKY EXCREMENTS. HA HA HA... LET ME CHECK THE TRANSCRIPT:

    [Karen: Do you agree that life begins at conception?

    Dr. Sylvia E. Claudio, M.D., Ph.D.: I'm lucky that I am the last to speak at this topic. Father, doctor and Sir George, this is how I'm going to explain it. First of all, in the RCC itself, we can already see it. Majority of their history says that life begins at ensoulment. Saint Thomas Aquinas himself said: "Ensoulment is 40 days for men, 90 days for women." It means men are earlier to have soul than women, that's why it's against the will of women activists. That's why it's not true that it's clear in the Scripture and in the practicum of the RCC what Fr. Castro said. ...]

    HA HA HA... IT IS CLEAR THE STATEMENT DIDN'T COME FROM FR. CASTRO BUT FROM YOUR AGNOSTIC, ANTI-GOD DRA[CULA] SYLVIA CLAUDIO THE CONDOMIST MODEL FOR PROMISCUITY. HA HA HA...

    (After a pro-RH spoke, Karen Davila asjked Fr. Castro if abortion is going to be legal when the RH Bill is going to be passed. Castro didn't answer this straightly but instead replied to the quotation from St. Thomas of Aquin.)

    [Fr. Melvin Castro: I would like to react on the quotation from Saint Thomas Aquinas. First of all, Saint Thomas Aquinas is a theologian and he is not the magisterium of the RCC. Consequently, what he taught on the medieval age is not the official teaching of the church. He is not infallible of what he said. The official teaching of the church is "life begins at fertilization." That is what the church is taking care of.]

    SO, WHERE DID FR. CASTRO STATED THAT LIFE BEGINS AT ENSOULMENT ACCORDING TO THE TEACHING OF ST. THOMAS AQUINAS? NOTHING. NADA, NUNCA. IN RUSSIAN: NYET, NYET!!! HA HA HA...

    YOU ARE PUTTING WORDS IN THE MOUTH OF FR. CASTRO WHICH HE DIDN'T SAY. INSTEAD, YOUR MODEL OF CONDOMIZATION, THE CHIEF SY-PILL-IST VOODOO PRIESTESS OF AGNNOSTICISM FROM U.P. OR UNIVERSITY OF PAGANISM WAS THE ONE WHO STATED SUCH A THING. HA HA HA.... LIAR, LIAR, LIAR.

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  35. SHAKE IT,

    [See, Fr. Abe?!? The "This Rock magazine" by the Catholic Answers confirms that Saint Thomas Aquinas believes that human life doesn't begin at fertilization.]

    HA HA HA... WHERE IS THE CONFIRMATION THERE? THE ROCK MAGAZINE SIMPLY STATED THAT ST. THOMAS HAS DIFFERENT OPINION ON THE ENSOULMENT. BUT, IT ALSO EXPLAINED BEAUTIFULLY THAT ST. THOMAS CONFORMS TO THE TEACHING OF THE CHURCH THAT ABORTION IS WRONG. HA HA HA... SO, WHAT DID YOU GET? NOTHING. HA HA HA...

    IF YOU WANT TO PUT CONDOM IN YOUR MOUTH OR IN YOUR ASS OR IN-BETWEEN YOUR LEGS STOP DEMONICALLY USING ST. THOMAS. IT ONLY SHOWS THAT YOU ARE AS STUPID AS YOUR DRA[CULA] CLAUDIO IN CATHOLIC THEOLOGY. IT IS OBVIOUS THAT YOU LEARNED IT FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF PAGANISM.

    You really s*cks, Father Abe. Go back to the seminary again and study theology. Hahahahaha. ;)

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